Cavs’ historic start: How Kenny Atkinson, Darius Garland, and bench depth are fueling success – Wine and Gold Talk Podcast

Takeaways:

• The Cavs have achieved a historic 9-0 start to the season.
• Kenny Atkinson’s coaching has significantly improved the team’s offensive flow. The Cavs are showing a more dynamic and creative offense compared to previous seasons.
• Darius Garland’s resilience is commendable, especially while dealing with an illness in New Orleans.
• The Cavs’ defensive adjustments in the second half were crucial for their success.
• Bench depth has been a key factor, with consistent contributions from players like Ty Jerome and Caris LeVert.
• The chemistry between Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland is evolving positively.
• The team’s ability to maintain leads and extend them is a promising sign for the season.
• The Cavs are being recognized as legitimate championship contenders early in the season.
• The upcoming game against the Golden State Warriors will be a significant test for the team.

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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Ethan Sands

What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. History was made, Chris. The Cavs are off to the best start in franchise history. Nine and O. This is a team that surpassed the team that was in 1976-1977.

But they’re also figuring out where they lie in this league, also trying to figure out how they fare. Chris, it was a game where a lot of different history was made, not just the record-wise, but Kenny Atkinson became the first coach in NBA history to start 9-0 in his first year with a new team. Then you look at a team that has been in nine games.

starting the season and the Cavs are one 130 point or more game from tying a record. They already have as many games with 130 point games this season than they did last year, right? And the team record for 130 points or more in a single season is five. Chris, we’re about to enter.

game 10 and this is a possibility that has been done only twice, the 2016-2017 team and the 2017-2018 team. Obviously you’re in New Orleans. This was a back and forth game that saw the Cavs not live up to the expectation to start the game. What did you see and what changed over the course of the game?

Chris (01:41.199)

I think they defended better in the second half. That to me is what changed. It was basically a layup line for the Pelicans in the first half. They were getting into the Cavs paint a little bit too easy. Now part of that was Jared Allen was dealing with fall trouble and it affected the rotations and the Cavs did deploy some small ball lineups with Donovan Mitchell at the small forward spot. Evan Mobley was in fall trouble. He followed out for just the second time in his career.

That was a point of contention in the locker room after the game. Just the unfavorable whistle for the Cavs, the lopsided whistle in favor of the Pelicans. But that to me is what changed. And I think, you know, big picture when the Cavs made the decision to move on from J.B. Bickerstaff, this is what they wanted. Not a nine and start. We’re not talking about that necessarily. But an explosive dynamic offense.

that was closer to the kind of defense that they’ve been showing over the last three years. There was a belief inside the front office that the talent was in place, that the roster was good enough. There was a belief among players that the roster was good enough, that they need to find a way to be more dynamic offensively. They needed to find a way to have an offense that better complimented their defense.

And a lot of people throughout the off season were saying to themselves and wondering out loud, what is this going to look like? What is this going to look like in a new system with a new offense, with a different philosophy, with different principles? What will it look like for Darius Garland? What will it look like for Evan Mobley? What will it look like for this projected starting five? What will it look like for this team? Well, we’re getting our answer.

It’s looked like a historic start with some really impressive wins along the way. Two against Milwaukee, one against New York. and just the way that they’re playing everything that they’re doing speaks to legitimate championship contenders.

Ethan Sands (03:52.322)

And we talked about this team, right? In the season that they started off with, it was a start that we had both pictured as one that was capable of having this kind of historic run. We didn’t know to what extent, but there were teams that they were having favorable matchups against. Obviously in New York, in Milwaukee, with two big ones that everybody had circled to start the year. But everything else was…

Chris (04:13.875)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (04:18.858)

Okay, let’s implement the offense and showcase the defensive identity that we have talked about rigorously throughout the post and throughout the preseason. And I think for the Cavs to be able to do this, right? And be able to showcase what they are capable of at this level so early and not only gives confidence to this team, but you talked about it. What does this mean for Darius Garland? What does it mean for Evan Mobley? But

They are now turning this into a defense to offense game, right? And obviously we talked about that with JB Brikkerstaff, but it’s to a different level. They’re creating turnovers, blocking shots, and getting into transition, and they’re not waiting to set up an offense that maybe JB might’ve wanted last season. It’s okay if you have a best shot because it might be the best shot of that possession. Take it, because…

We believe in the shot profile. We believe in the players that we have on this team to make those or even so talking about Jared Allen, Evan Mobley go ahead and get the offensive rebound because in today’s game, right, we had also discussed Kenny Atkinson and said before the game and earlier into the week talking about how important it was to do better on the offensive rebounding end. And for the Cavs to be able to showcase what they were able to do tonight,

It was a different level and obviously Evan Mobley might have had a possession where he might have got three rebounds in that one possession on the offensive end, but it’s felt like they have been able to use the transition game to a different level than they have in the past.

Chris (05:52.913)

Bye.

Chris (06:02.771)

Well, I think the other thing is, and yeah, that’s true, and that’s a big point of emphasis, and it’s something that they’ve been talking about since Kenny arrived, but it’s running with a purpose. And that doesn’t always mean that they’re going to get out in the fast break and they’re going to score in transition, but they’re going to initiate offense quicker. They’re not going to let the defense get set. They’re going to make quicker decisions within the flow of the offense. They’re not going to allow themselves to get consistently bogged down.

I just think, you know, there’s a belief in Kenny that when the defense starts making adjustments and they start countering some of the things that the Cavs want to do and they start taking away the initial set, the initial play that Kenny and this offense creates more solutions for a way to combat that so that they don’t get bogged down, so that they don’t just revert back to, high pick and roll.

Here you go, Darius, here you go, Donovan, end of clock situation, come up, set a screen, Jared Allen, come up, set screen, Evan Mobley. There’s just more variance with what they do on the offensive end of the floor. And it makes it more difficult, obviously, for a defense. And you can see a level of comfort that these players have in this particular system. You know, one of the questions that I asked a lot of the guys after the game, said, Kenny became the first coach in his debut season.

to go nine and up to win his first nine games and they were aware of that they celebrated Kenny in the locker room after they dumped water on his head and they danced alongside him although nobody would grade his dancing moves and I think that’s pretty telling I asked Darius, I said you know how would you grade Kenny’s dance moves and he said we got the win that’s the thing that matters the most so that was a pretty telling answer but when I asked them that question I said you know

In what way do you feel Kenny Atkinson’s impact the most on this team, especially during this fast start? Kara said offense, Donovan said offense, Darius Garland said offense, everybody that spoke post game started with offense. And Darius even said, he’s like, I know everybody’s going to have the same answer because there’s just more flow to this offense. There’s more purpose to this offense. There’s more creativity to this offense.

Chris (08:28.401)

And you can see that. And that’s what it comes down to. mean, they’ve played nine games at this point, Ethan. And in four of the nine, they’ve either had a different leading scorer or somebody that was tied as the leading scorer. So that diversity that the Cavs front office wanted for the longest time, the creativity and the modern principles that the Cavs front office wanted for the longest time, that players were like,

craving. That is showing up here. And I know some of these teams are not the best defensive teams in the NBA. And they’re taking advantage of games against Washington who doesn’t guard anybody in Toronto and wounded New Orleans team and the Lakers who, you know, they’ve been up and down to start the year. But through the first nine games, the Cavs have the best offense in the NBA. And it just doesn’t feel like a fluke.

Ethan Sands (09:29.998)

It feels like a team that can continue that, right? And that begins with Kenny Atkinson and what he’s been able to implement and what he’s been able to instill in the players. But I want to touch on, because this is a podcast talking about moments. We want to get into the nuances and give more insight, right? So after the Cavs tied franchise history, Kenny Atkinson came to the podium and said, I didn’t know.

I didn’t know we tied it. We didn’t celebrate it. We’ll definitely celebrate it tomorrow, right? And that was, to me, how I took it was, okay, we’re going to New Orleans. We know we should win this game. We’ll celebrate it then. We’ll celebrate it when they get to New Orleans and be able to actually surpass history, right? Not only the Cavs franchise history of a best start to a season, but also Kenny Atkinson having the best start in French and in just…

Chris (10:18.364)

no.

Ethan Sands (10:27.838)

Overall when it comes to being a new coach with a new team, right? And that’s just amazing to think about when we talk about the season that they came off of but also The and four start that I know donovan mitchell kind of talked about a little bit in his postgame press conference talking about how That might have been a jarring feature for calves fans and what kenny akinson was going to bring to this team, but you touched on darrius garland, right and

Chris (10:28.743)

Hey.

Ethan Sands (10:57.102)

To me, Darius has been probably the most in-shape player to start the season. And it’s crazy to say that because he’s a guy coming off of a fractured, a fractured face, basically, fractured jaw, and had to drink through a straw for a majority of the season last year, and then said, okay, I’m coming back, I’m better, I’m stronger, I have added the weight back, maybe even a little bit more muscle than I had, but.

feel great in this New Orleans game. I might feel a little sick. Chris, I know you have more insight on that, talking about what Darius was going through. Was it bad gumbo in New Orleans?

Chris (11:38.828)

It was not bad gumbo I asked him that specifically and he said that he doesn’t He doesn’t really dabble in the New Orleans cuisine The feel from people that I talked to is that he didn’t have the best Warmest chicken at the beginning of the game and he said that he started feeling it really During pregame warm-ups

he was fine throughout the course of the afternoon he was fine going to the game but he started feeling it in pregame warmups and you can tell at the beginning of the game he was not running with the same force he was kind of hunched over every single time out you know he would squat down and he would grab toward his stomach he did not start the second half Karis Laverte started the second half because Darius was

still in the locker room and he just wasn’t feeling well. Then Darius came onto the floor and then he left again quickly. Right at the beginning of the third quarter, he admitted that he threw up in the locker room after that. And then, you know, throughout the course of the game, New Orleans was quite aware of Darius not feeling at his best. And there were some conversations in the Cavs locker room that New Orleans was

hitting Darius in the stomach basically every opportunity that they got. Setting harder screens, putting their shoulder into him on drives, bumping him when he was driving to the basket and stuff like that. But I give him credit. He obviously wasn’t 100%. He still gutted through it, literally. See what I did there. He was efficient. Again, five of 10 from the field, four of six from three point range, nine assists, 14 points.

So he did enough positive things while he was out there, while gutting through what he considered a really rough game, considering how much he felt it on basically every shot attempt that he took. So hopefully by Friday, for his sake, he’ll be feeling better. And it was just what people were talking about, maybe some cold.

Chris (13:59.437)

chicken at the beginning of the game and it’s not a situation where you know Dean Wade becomes patient zero or something like that and it trickles throughout the team because Dean he’s still back home he’s still essentially bedridden he didn’t fly to New Orleans because nobody wanted him around he was told not to go to shoot around a couple days ago he was told not to go on the team plane so the hope is that from Darius’s standpoint

that this isn’t the start of a sickness actually. was something else that was going on there.

Ethan Sands (14:37.496)

So that’s the other thing, right? We talk a lot about the toughness of this team on this podcast, something that has been questioned for a majority of the tenure of Donovan Mitchell, unfortunately for him. like, there is Garland being able to play through the sickness, being able to say, okay, I’m not feeling my best. I don’t feel up to par, but I’m gonna play through this.

and go and do what you guys need, right? Like you said, Chris, he had nine assists, right? And five of 10 from the field, he was 50%, right? And you talk about a guy that was not feeling like himself. And if he’s not playing or feeling like himself and he’s still close to a double-double, I think the Cavs will take that for a majority of the season.

Chris (15:08.679)

Mm-hmm.

Chris (15:15.794)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (15:31.446)

So not only does that set a standard from the Milwaukee game where he went back and forth with Damien Lillard and all those different things But this is the guy that’s willing to fight right and that’s going back to the joy that we talked about of this of Darius Garland what he’s gotten back and playing with the group that you’ve been with for three years now with Donovan Mitchell and Understanding that this is going to be a potentially special group

And it already is in franchise history, right? But are you willing to play and give your all? And I think that after tonight shouldn’t be a question for Darius Garland. It was last year, right? It was, when is he coming back? Is he playing fully healthy? Why is he sitting on a heated pad or whatever when it comes to going to the bench during the playoffs last year because his back wasn’t at 100 % either, right?

So Chris, for me, it’s the point guard and shooting guard duo or just the guard duo of Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland being able to be active at almost all times. And not only that, but their efficiency and how they can impact this game. And we talked a little bit about how the Cavs didn’t even get off to the greatest start. But last season, the third quarter seemed like it was

How do I say this nicely? It wasn’t a death sentence, but it was like they didn’t play to the same caliber coming out of halftime today and for the most of the season thus far they’ve shown that they can do and play at a different level they scored 40 points in the third quarter and only allowed 29 obviously only allowed 29 you say that with a grain of salt because that’s still almost 30 points, but

Chris (17:24.477)

Okay.

Ethan Sands (17:25.614)

Chris, this team feels like it’s reinvigorated and it feels like Donovan Mitchell again, and we’ve talked about this a lot this season, doesn’t feel like he has to do a whole lot until it’s winning time, right? He’s impacting the game in different ways, spacing, getting his players the ball that he knows needs it, and feeling like he can trust in everybody in Kenny Atkinson’s offense to get things going. And then in the fourth quarter, he said, all right, nothing else is working.

I’ll take over, time for me to do my thing.

Chris (17:57.585)

Yeah. That’s the thing that stands out through the first nine games is that, like I said, for those games, it was a different leading scorer or it was somebody that was tied for the lead in scoring. That’s the kind of balance that they want. That’s the kind of diversity that they want. It doesn’t always have to be Donovan. It can’t always be Donovan. They’re going to be Knights where he’s going to lead them in scoring, of course, because he’s that dude.

And late in the game, he saw an opportunity and he took over in the fourth quarter. Every time New Orleans was getting within six to possession game, Donovan would hit a big shot or he drive to the basket and he would score inside or he’d work his way to the free throw line. For him to have, know, for him to sense the moment, sense that Darius was less than a hundred percent.

You Evan Mobley was in foul trouble that was limiting his aggressiveness. Jared Allen was in foul trouble that was limiting his aggressiveness. He, let the game come to him early on. He felt the game out and he saw an opportunity in the fourth quarter where it was time for him to go into attack mode. And that’s what his team needed from him. And I think that’s part of Donovan’s leadership. And I think it’s one of the things that teammates have raved about when it comes to Donovan.

is his willingness to take a step back when it’s required, but also his willingness to understand what the game calls for and just flip that switch. And that’s what he did in the fourth quarter. He was brilliant in the fourth quarter, but he doesn’t have to do that every single night because of the evolution of Evan Mobley as an offensive player, because of the way that Darius Garland has played and looked comfortable in this offensive system.

at the beginning of the year, because of the way that Karras-Levert has played off the bench. When you look through these first nine games, like it hasn’t been Donovan Mitchell dominating to the point of, you he looks like Jokic out there, where he’s involved in like every single play. It’s been a little bit of the bench. Big contributions from George Niang, Sam Merrill tonight.

Chris (20:17.843)

Craig Porter Jr. gave them good minutes coming off the bench. Karis LaVert, after a two game absence, was really good coming off the bench. Then some nights it’s going to be Evan Mobley, other nights it’s going to be Darius Garland. Like that’s the beauty of this team. That’s the beauty of this 9-0 start, is that everybody has a role and everybody is contributing in a different kind of way. And the way that this roster is set up, you know,

Some of these role players don’t have to go outside their role. A guy like Kikoro doesn’t have to be a premier offensive player to make an impact on this team. He doesn’t because they’ve got enough scoring from other guys. They’ve got enough sources of consistent, reliable offense. Craig Porter Jr. doesn’t have to play every single night, right? It just might be a stretch here or there in the second half, in the first half.

just give quality minutes. Do the things that earned you a standard NBA contract as opposed to a two-way contract. And it just feels like obviously Kenny Atkinson is going to continue to lean into the depth of this team, but it feels like through these nine games, it’s been somebody different every night and it’s been every…

Ethan Sands (21:43.854)

And that’s something we talked about last year, right? We talked about how this team could be that right? We talked about how this team had potential and had times where it would show that all the team all the players on the roster could make an impact and that’s why Jamie bigger staff and this team were able to take the leap that they were obviously in large part because they also traded for Donovan Mitchell, but the other thing and I know I

Chris (22:00.755)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (22:12.426)

mentioned this at the beginning, but I have to reiterate it, right? This is nine games into the season, so everything is small sample size, but the one thing that’s not small sample size, the one thing that’s pretty much the same sample size, is the Cavs have matched the amount of times that they have scored 130 points or more in the first nine games of the season that they had last year. This is the offense.

that they had been talking about, that they had been raving about during the preseason, during training camp, that they had thought was possible under Kenny Atkinson. It was different, right? It’s something that this team could not have or not be possible without, without the bench production. You mentioned Karris LaVert, who had 16 points and six assists, along with six rebounds in tonight’s win. Then you talk about Ty Jerome, who had

Crucial minutes when the team felt like it was at its lowest during this game He went off and had 11 points and it felt like a lot of them were in the same quarter then you talk about George Nien who I know a lot of our subtexters went off and said, okay Well, why is he still in the rotation? Why is he still in the lineup? He had nine points to rebounds to assist and a block and this was in a conversation where

Chris (23:34.29)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (23:41.178)

where George Niang was playing in significant minutes because of Evan Mobley and Dean Wade being out. This is the conversation that says, okay, we understand that you’re not the best defender, but can you hold your own? And I felt like tonight, Jordan Niang showed that he was able to not do that to a level that they would consistently need, but in crunch time, in times where they needed it,

George was able to come out and come through. And Chris, for me, this team is something that we have talked about since the pre-season about getting to this point, about getting to play against teams that they should win against and keeping their foot on their necks since last season even, right? Tonight, it felt like when it mattered.

after teams get out to that hot start, think they have a role that they might’ve gotten in the first quarter, the Cavs say, okay, let’s quiet that down. And instead let’s do what we have to, to win the game rather than, okay, we’re in panic mode. Let’s figure out how we win the game, right?

Chris (24:53.543)

Big part that Ethan is the bench. You talked about it there. Bench scoring tonight, Cavs 50, New Orleans 22. If you can go to your bench, you can start sprinkling in members of your second unit and they can extend the lead. They don’t give up a lead. They keep it where it’s at. That’s really, really valuable. And that’s what we’ve seen through the first nine games. Ty Jerome’s been awesome.

He did a little bit of everything. He was integral to the Cavs getting the game tied going into the half because of the way that he played in the second quarter, the way that he sparked the team when it seemed like at various points, like they just didn’t have it. It was a very wonky first half for the Cavs. was very choppy. I mentioned the fall trouble. know, Donovan was relatively quiet. Darius was dealing with the stomach bug.

So for Ty Jerome to do the things that he did that was needed, but he’s been doing that Every single night for this team those kinds of contributions off the bench You know, George Nieng has been consistent coming off the bench Karis Levert is probably going to be in the running for sixth man of the year if he continues to play like this So that’s the thing right the thing that you’re talking about there in terms of finishing off these games putting their

their foot on the throat of the opponent and making sure that, you know, in fourth quarters, these starters don’t have to play the whole way in these second halves. These starters don’t have to play the whole way. many times last year in the second half to Donovan play all 24. Donovan felt like at times he didn’t want to come out of the game. JB Biggerstaff felt at times he couldn’t take Donovan out of the game.

Ethan Sands (26:38.126)

Too many. Too many.

Chris (26:46.897)

So this is a different bench because of Ty Jerome being healthy. He played two games last year. That played a part in the Cavs not having the bench that they thought they were going to have coming into the year. That played a part in the inconsistency that the Cavs had coming off the bench. But if they’re going to get 40 to 60 points coming off the bench, and more importantly, if these guys are going to keep leads

extend leads, then it’s going to be really, really beneficial for the Cavs. And that’s something that you saw tonight, and that’s something that you’ve seen through the first nine games of the season.

Ethan Sands (27:28.238)

And not only talking about Ty Jerome’s scoring, right? But he also had five assists throughout the night and it was able to just impact the game, impact winning. Yeah, entirely. Right? And just looking at plus minuses, right? Obviously Jared Allen, who I feel like we skip over a lot on this podcast just because of how consistent he is. He had 16 and 14 again with

Chris (27:36.871)

He did everything. Did everything.

Ethan Sands (27:55.394)

Two blocks and a steal and he was plus 24 tonight. Darius Garland who was dealing with the illness was plus 14 and then you had Ty Jerome tied for the third best plus minus on the team tonight with plus 16 and I mean Chris, we came into this game believing, thinking that this should be a win, that the team should have a franchise record.

after facing the New Orleans Pelicans in New Orleans on Wednesday. But now they come back to Rock and Morton Fieldhouse on Friday against the Golden State Warriors, the team that just beat the Oklahoma City Thunder that were undefeated prior to tonight. And I think it’s the next test of the game. We’re gonna preview this game in tomorrow’s podcast, and we’re gonna have a little bit of our Hey Chris questions. So don’t miss it.

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