Evaluating Ohio State football’s 38-15 win over Indiana: Buckeye Talk podcast

Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Stephen Means (00:46.444)

Welcome back to Buckeye Talk. My name is Stephen Means. Another guy’s name on this pod is Stefan Kreisling. And the other guy’s name on this pod is Andrew Gillis. And we just watched Ohio State get its second top five win of the season, 38 to 15 over Indiana. First and foremost, Stefan, yourself on the back. You gotta do, I know they can’t see it, but you gotta still do it. I’m gonna tell them you can do it. And Stephen, I’m gonna also pat myself on the back.

Stefan Krajisnik (01:09.593)

Yep, I’m doing it. I’m doing it.

Stephen Means (01:15.758)

because I picked 38 to 10 and Stefan picked 31 to 17 and Ohio State and Indiana managed to somehow merge those two scores and get the best of both worlds. Andrew also picked them. In fact, Andrew also patched herself on the.

You it, there you go. Wait, because Andrew picked over. And Tremion Henderson tried to take it away from him. And it didn’t work because Ohio State wouldn’t score it anyway. So all of us in one way or another ended up being right. But I think what this comes back to is, Steven is the most right. listen, this is what happens here. Even when I’m wrong, I’m right. This game, Andrew, essentially played out the exact way I said it was going to play out. Where I think for the first,

Andrew (01:34.599)

I’m feeling good about myself, because I know where you’re going with this.

Stephen Means (02:03.118)

quarter and a half, Indiana having some pretty decent guys and hella good coaches. Signed can coach some ball, right? Until he decides to not coach ball anymore and turn this into a handoff machine. 41 runs in a game where you lost it by 20 plus points is just not okay. But we’ll get into that later. Indiana first drive of the game. They take it 70 yards down the field in 11 plays in six minutes and 12 seconds. And they take a seven to nothing.

lead in this game. The problem is Indiana finished the game with 151 yards and I think the other 40 of their excuse me, they had two drives, a 70 yard drive and a 75 play yard drive where that’s where all their yardage came from essentially that first drive of the game and then their last drive of the game where Ohio State was also rotating in some backups. But this game played out exactly how I thought. Early on, Indiana will get some things going but eventually Ohio State would show.

that there is a significant difference in between where they are as a program and where Indiana was as a program. And as a result, you get a 38 to 15 score where Ohio State is a game away from the Big Ten Championship game. And unless Ohio State completely drops the ball against Michigan, Indiana’s chance at a Big Ten title is over.

Andrew (03:21.233)

Yeah, so this was for as much as we were talking before the game, I was on the sidelines, you know, kind of before the game watching recruits show up, which if we want to talk about David Sanders at the end of this, we can. But there were a couple of big name recruits here. So I’m sitting on the side. You know, you’re talking to couple of writers and the consensus that we were having was. I’m not quite sure how this game is going to go. And then we got to the game and I think all of our predictions.

for us, other publications. I think we were all kind of on the money. I think we all kind of looked at this and were like, you know what? I think Ohio State is going to maybe struggle a little bit early. They’ve done that. I think Indiana is gonna come out like Spartans from 300 where they’re just ready to go. They’re screaming and yelling. They’ve just got this like great pump up speech from Signetti and everything’s gonna look.

great for them early and then we’ll see Ohio State maybe take over a little bit. And we saw that. I think what I did not expect was exactly what I’m looking at on my score by quarter box score on my stat broadcast where Ohio State outscored Indiana 14 to nothing in the second quarter and Ohio State outscored Indiana 14 to nothing in the third quarter. I thought Indiana was going to give a little bit more of a fight in that kind of middle two quarters.

I thought that that was where you were really going to start to see Ohio State pull away, but I did not think it was going to be as easy, frankly, as it was for Ohio State. You definitely saw the talent gap. That was notable. You definitely saw how good Ohio State was, how deep Ohio State was. I’m not going to do the thing that I’m sure people are probably doing where it’s, well, Indiana probably just wasn’t that good anyway. This is a top five win for Ohio State against a team that had beaten everybody on its schedule. And Ohio State.

pretty much dominated them for the entire game after that first drive. It was really impressive, I think, from Ohio State. for all the consternation we had about, what’s Indiana? Is Ohio State’s defense okay? Indiana goes 70 yards on their opening drive. And then the rest of the game, eight, negative seven, negative four, kneel down at the end of the half, two, eight, 32, negative 11, 75, and then three.

Andrew (05:43.953)

Like they just did not do anything when the game was relevant at that point. And I wasn’t expecting that. And you got to tip your cap to Ohio State. They did a phenomenal job.

Stefan Krajisnik (05:53.571)

Yeah, no doubt. I was just gonna say, you know, Andrew, you were talking about where the game kind of flipped there. I pointed to guys, maybe three all at Willow Howard into this. But two guys in particular that I felt were responsible for this game kind of flipping on its head the way that it did. Obviously, Caleb Downs, the punt return. He’s just an outstanding player. There’s nothing left to say about it. And Cody Simon, I thought that stretch he went on in the second quarter.

Stephen Means (05:53.868)

And that includes, go ahead, Seba.

Stefan Krajisnik (06:23.513)

was really impressive and actually when it was when it was seven nothing he had a drive where he made all three tackles to force a punt and then Ohio State got the ball back and that’s when they went down to score you know a minute later the game was tied I thought Cody Simon and Caleb Downs kind of just flipped this game on their on its head and really changed the outlook of how things were going to go

Stephen Means (06:44.974)

Cody Simon had 10 tackles two and a half sacks and two and a half TFLs and he forced a fumble and that forced fumble gave Ohio State prime field position. Unfortunately, they couldn’t do anything with that for that forced fumble and that prime field position. that’s the best game Cody Simon’s ever played here. And it’s not even close and Sonny Stiles James Lauren is going to be an elite assistant coach. An elite assistant coach.

Stefan Krajisnik (07:02.107)

was amazing.

Stephen Means (07:14.732)

He already proved Andrew the recruiting part of it over the off season when he went and got Riley Pettigon and TJ Offred. And I know that we did a recruiting pod this week where we were, had there some concerns about whether or not Miami’s gonna be able to flip TJ Offred. But still, the fact that he, his first recruiting class, he went and got a borderline five star recruit out of Texas and a top 80 recruit out of Florida to pair with an in-state kid who’s got some signs of being like Tommy Eichenberg.

That part of it he checked off the list during the off season. His second job was getting a room where the only guy who had played more than 100 linebacker snaps in his entire career.

was Cody Simon, he somehow unlocked another level out of Cody Simon. He has Sonny Styles transitioning from safety to linebacker, and now he’s a cinema finalist for the Buckets Award. Arvel Reese is a stud. TJ Hicks is just playing out of position at this point, but we think when we’ve seen him be a blitzer, we’ve seen how dangerous he can be coming off the edge. And Gabe Powers is flashing things as well. James Orradiatus is going to be the lead assistant coach here. But Cody Simon.

I agree with you, Stefan. He helped flip this game and I’m going to talk about Caleb Downs because I just love talking about Caleb Downs. That’s the first punt return for a touchdown Ohio State has had since 2014 when Jaylen Marshall took one back against guess who? Indiana. Guess how that season played out. Guess what happened that year for a team who also had some injuries at some key positions and had to have some makeshift things happen. Guess how it ended in the first year of a

Change in how we did postseason play in college football. I’m not saying that’s how this season’s going in No, I am saying that because I predicted it in the preseason but I Do think Andrew there is a kudos that has to be said you were hinted at it as well Ohio State’s inability to get off the field a third down on that first drive I think they gave up three third downs one for nine yards one for six yards and then one for two yards and then Jim Knowles his ability to immediately make corrections make adjustments and

Stephen Means (09:17.664)

And then it’s like, you were good while you were on script. But the moment that your plan goes out the window, Jim Knowles shuts you down for the rest of the game.

Andrew (09:26.335)

I I don’t know how many Indiana fans are listening to this podcast. My guess would be not many. So maybe this is more, maybe this is more app for Indiana, but if you’ve ever like watched a horror movie and like the beginning of the movie, there’s like these little hints that they drop for like the plot twist late, right? And I feel like Ohio state putting Indiana in those third downs on the first drive probably should have been our first.

Okay. Maybe, maybe this is going to go pretty poorly for Indiana. you know, I mean, Indiana was at third and nine on that first drive. They got a 13 yard gain. were at third and six. They got a 19 yard gain. Then they were at third and two and they got a three yard gain. Like they were kind of up against it a few times on that drive and Ohio state didn’t get off the field, but I think it did kind of let you know that

Even when it was script, Indiana was still kind of fighting for every yard, tooth and nail. And then once the script ended, once they got out of it, it kind of went off the rails a little bit. you know, I think that that was kind of like the, the hint that things were going to go awry for Indiana and really well for Ohio state. those were kind of like the little, just a little nuggets of things were going to go, in that direction. So, I mean, credit to Ohio state for, for kind of fixing that. The first drive was.

not great in that regard in terms of getting out the field on third down and then I mean the rest of the game Indiana went six of fourteen so what is that three of eleven the rest of the game that that that those are numbers you will take every single week.

Stefan Krajisnik (11:04.389)

This, this defense, this was kind of the pinnacle performance of how this defense has changed. And it’s impressive, man. It looks like we’re watching a completely different team than, what we saw in the Oregon game. And honestly, even, you know, leading into the Oregon game, I think there were times where, we criticize this defense because the pass rush wasn’t really effective. And we saw it get better against Penn State. We saw it, you know, be better against Purdue and Northwestern.

And this was kind of the pinnacle of it like top five matchup against one of the best offenses in the country. What is your password is going to do? And some of it, you know, the, the, the gap between the Ohio States, Bama’s and the Georgia’s and kind of the rest of the teams is in the trenches, right? Like you see that along the offensive line, the defensive line. So yeah, Indiana in terms of talent, you can’t really match up in the trenches with Ohio state, but that was still an effective offense and everything that they had kind of been building toward the way we saw them use the linebackers and blitzes.

know, these last few weeks kind of came into fruition in this game in a huge game with Big 10 title title game implications. And I think Jim Knowles, what did he what did he say about Caleb Downs earlier this year, he was activated, right? He activated Cody Simon, and it worked out very well in his favor.

Stephen Means (12:25.23)

I wonder who’s next in the activation. And I wonder if it’s number 11. Or maybe I’m…

Andrew (12:32.451)

I was gonna say you and Stefan are not allowed to say anybody other than you know who I’m thinking of at linebacker. There you go. Yeah, there you go.

Stephen Means (12:38.177)

Harville? Yeah. I mean…

Stefan Krajisnik (12:41.365)

No, Arvel’s got his own phrase. He’s not getting activated. He’s on a path of destruction or whatever.

Stephen Means (12:45.931)

Yeah!

Andrew (12:46.589)

Path to greatness, I think is what it was.

Stephen Means (12:49.026)

Well, and I do think that’s actually, I mean, I’m just giving Stefan and I more reason to brag about RBL. I think that’s possible because the one thing you did see today, and this is, I’m not going to do a bunch of net picking on this spot because you just want a top five game, my 23 points. I’m just not going to do it. But Indiana did move the ball a little bit in the run game, especially up the middle of the defense. I think that was less about concerns with the defensive line and more about light box.

Indiana was able to move the ball because what does Indiana do best passing offense? And so you sacrifice Maybe load in the box to take away the pass which they did a phenomenal job as Curtis Curtis work finished 8 of 18 for 68 yards

He started the game, he was five of seven in his first seven passes and finished the game eight of 18 for 68 yards. So Ohio State decided they’re gonna not let Kurdish work, be able to be any level of effective in the passing. And a lot of that again, goes back to Kudos to Cody Simon for getting home and getting to the quarterback. And I think it unlocked Jack Sawyer. I think it unlocked JT Twinmoloa. I think it unlocked his defensive line as a whole.

But they were able to run the ball a little bit. They are running backs. Tyson Lawton, 15 carries for 79 yards. Two touchdowns. Justin Ellison, 17 carries for 62 yards. They were able to run in a little bit, but that’s because you sacrificed the light box because you were so busy trying to make sure you took away these receivers. Elijah Serat, three for 40. He was one of only two players. I have at least 10 receiving yards. The other one, Miles Price, one for 13. The other guys, Tyson Lawton,

Two for nine, Kishon Williams two for six. So I don’t have a problem with that. The only thing I did have a problem with, there was a play where they went with a dime look, but they stayed with two linebackers on the field to play for ransom off the I don’t think Latham and Rantle should ever come off the field, but I’m fine with that. The point I’m gonna make about our very recent, I think we might see the reverse of that. Where we saw a lot of four quarterback looks this week against Indiana.

Stephen Means (15:01.056)

I think we might see a lot of three linebacker, maybe even four linebacker next week because of how Michigan might attack you. Any other compliments we want to give to Jim Knowles in this defense before we take a break and we transfer over to the offensive side.

Andrew (15:14.181)

Yeah, just real quick. We had talked on the pod, know, Steven, I know you tweeted this out, you know, the picture of Denzel and Davison kind of working on those back shoulder throws. I looked at Steven at the end of the game and I went, is that Indiana’s first back shoulder pass that they threw all game? And I think that that is a credit to Jim Knowles and it is a credit to the front seven causing havoc because like, look, Curtis Rourke

did not have a great game, eight of 18, 68 yards. Like nobody’s going to defend those numbers. The, the explanation I think in part of those numbers is that man was under siege all day. It felt like Ohio State’s front was really getting after him. And I think when you kind of look at the way that that happened, there were a lot of schemed up pressures. There were a couple of plays where, and we, we pointed this out, Cody Simon was on block once or twice.

JT was unblocked once or twice. Jack came right up the middle, Jack Sawyer, and there was nobody there. Like it just felt like they were causing havoc. And you don’t want to, you don’t want to throw this allegation out for a quarterback because it is kind of like not great. It’s not a great look on them, but it kind of felt like Curtis Rourke was seeing ghosts a little bit. It felt like he was so worried about what was going on at the line of scrimmage as he rightly should have been because Ohio State’s front was playing so well that

I mean, you looked at what was going on elsewhere. Didn’t really matter. Like Indiana was one of the most efficient passing teams in the country coming into this game. Like they weren’t 10 and 0 just by sheer luck. Like they could throw the ball and we didn’t really see a ton of that. And I think that’s a credit to Jim Knowles in the front seven for the way that they got after Indiana and the way that they got after Curtis Rourke.

Stephen Means (17:04.174)

David said but he did have a couple PIs early his first two targets ended up being defensive pass interference call So it’s still there the street lives on but I think this comes back to Scheme and play calling and the play of your linebackers I sent this out to the Texas 6 1 4 3 5 0 3 3 1 5 2 if we traffic 99 after that during the game I said that I feel like Ohio State’s in this weird conundrum right now where it’s it takes a while for this defensive line to start getting pressured for

And so you’ve got to send more than four. But when you blitz, you’re taking a chance of putting these cornerbacks on an island. And so you’re almost picking what’s the lesser of two evils? Denzel Burke and Davidson Eguinosa on an island or giving courage for our crawl day to throw the football. They chose to put these corners on an island and outside of that first drive. First of all, I thought Denzel Burke was like absent today. And I don’t mean that negative. I mean like they didn’t throw the ball to Denzel Burke side of the field.

So kudos to Denzel Burke. He did his job to a tee today. I think they rotated in Jermaine Matthews. He did a really good job today playing at a high level. Davidson Ibn Nusayn after that kind of bad first drive settled in there, right? And so that leads back to do we think Denzel Burke and Davidson Ibn Nusayn are going to play as bad as they did at gets Oregon again this year? I don’t believe so. But if they’re going to hold up in coverage.

As they showed it in Indiana, they can. It allows you to send to Cody Simon. It allows you to send Sonny Styles one more blitzes, because what that does is it gives defensive line juice. And we saw that play out. And this is.

Andrew (18:35.123)

What about not even matter if you if you you if they’re not gonna hold up a coverage it might not matter if you’re just gonna get after Gabriel quick enough it like that might they might they might have a terrible game. Denzel Burke could play the same level that he played against Oregon but if Dylan Gabriel is getting sacked by Jack Sawyer in a second and a half it doesn’t they could have us three instead of Davis and Iguanos and Denzel Burke and Jordan Hancock and if you are getting after Gabriel in time it’s not gonna matter.

Stephen Means (18:40.716)

Yeah,

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Stephen Means (18:59.66)

Yeah, if Cody started… I mean, yeah, I would love… Listen. No, I think I can give you two good snaps. Just put me off coverage and cover forward.

Stefan Krajisnik (18:59.725)

I would not recommend that.

Andrew (19:03.036)

No, bad idea.

Stefan Krajisnik (19:04.059)

But we-

Stefan Krajisnik (19:10.669)

Against who? Jeremiah Smith?

Stephen Means (19:13.782)

No, no, no. Listen, there’s nobody who stop Jeremiah Smith or the play calling. Okay, and I’m talking about the offensive play calling.

Stefan Krajisnik (19:21.541)

We did. I will say we did have a funny discussion in the press box where we came to the realization that like Michigan’s probably going to go to like the Music City Bowl. And we were like, what is their roster going to look like? And Steven’s like, they might need us to play for them.

Stephen Means (19:33.518)

I’m just saying I did send a survey out to our sexers and I’m just gonna run through some things as we talk about stuff To the Indiana point again this score this Ohio State, Indiana score looks very similar to the Texas Georgia score SEC lovers After Texas do you think Indiana should make the cost of a 12 based off what you’ve seen 71 % said yes 100 % of the people on this podcast believe yes quality went for Ohio State. Let’s take a break

And then we’ll talk about Ryan day. We’ll talk about more importantly, we’ll hire in this office.

We’re back here on Buckeye Talk. So the thing I love about the post game pod is that we’re doing this pod while we’re also watching a lot of the other football games play. And the reason we get to do that is because we keep covering noon games, which I thought was hilarious today. I have never seen Stefan more upset about a noon game until today. He is not a, there’s a guy who stands on the field during media timeouts and his whole job is to just let both teams know how much time is left in the timeout before.

the game resumes. Stefan hates that guy.

Stefan Krajisnik (20:43.734)

It was it was funny where I was There was a stretch where I wasn’t really saying a whole lot in the press box and it was kind of quiet and I just randomly was like Jesus Christ like You look down the guy walks out there. It’s like alright three minute on immediate time out whatever and it doesn’t matter how long he’s out there every time I look down there’s still like a minute and half left every

Stephen Means (21:05.484)

Yep.

Stefan Krajisnik (21:06.043)

Steve was like you need to stop looking at him. like I can’t I just want to watch football this dude is just standing there and I know it’s not the guy’s fault I get it, but he is public enemy number one and that’s just listen It’s it’s great that these schools and these athletic departments make a lot of money And it’s great that you know I can I can look to my right here And I have a quad box with four different games on and we can watch any game you want, but the commercials

Stephen Means (21:09.048)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (21:31.477)

There was there 10 seconds left in the first quarter. We had a media timeout for like three four minutes We played 10 seconds and there was another like end of the quarter timeout. I’m like just

Stephen Means (21:43.65)

He doesn’t hate the guy, he hates what the guy represents. That’s one of them.

Andrew (21:47.623)

He doesn’t hate the man, he hates the idea. Have you ever seen that? You can’t kill the man, can’t, yeah, exactly. That’s exactly Stefan’s thinking.

Stephen Means (21:50.09)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (21:50.203)

It’s.

Stephen Means (21:54.222)

He hates the idea of the man. couple of other things I sent to our Texas. Rank these outcomes of your early thoughts of how the Michigan game plays out. Ohio State wins the ball. Ohio State wins in a close game. Michigan wins in a close game. Michigan wins the ball. It was in that order one before Ohio State wins in a blowout and Ohio State wins in a close game. We’re one and two. There was a decent gap in between those one block winning Michigan winning with a blowout. Obviously barely got any votes in that situation. I also asked about the Oregon game, record conference level.

of these outcomes of a potential rematch against Oregon right now, just in that moment, right after the game. I said this right after the game. Ohio State wins in a close game. Ohio State wins in a blowout. Oregon wins in a close game. Oregon wins in a blowout. In order one through four, Ohio State wins in a close game. Ohio State wins in a blowout. Oregon wins in a close game. Oregon wins in a blowout. Ohio State wins in a close game was significantly the number one in that poll. I also asked what’s your confidence level?

that this team could win a rematch against Oregon. That’s actually up to 7.69 from being in a lower seventh from a week ago. So another top five win. Obviously that rises up in this situation. And then has one more question about Will Howard, which I’ll get to in a minute here. The first thing I want to ask is Will Howard on the day, 22 of 26, 201 yards, two touchdowns, an interception that was not at all.

His squad, Jelani Thurman, did not catch the ball. Had he caught the ball, it wouldn’t have been. Though, Jelani Thurman did get his first career touchdown, and he also had a rushing touchdown thanks to Trevion Henderson deciding to slide at the one yard line in Ohio State working on his QB sneak. Though I do think, Stephon, great idea them going with a QB sneak on that play, because they have to work on that again. Now that it’s not Seth McLaughlin as your center, and that gave you an opportunity to try it a couple of times, here’s my question for you, Stephon.

She will however be in the highest on trophy competition.

Stefan Krajisnik (23:48.795)

I mean, all the numbers are there back it up, right? You went through it and kind of dove into it during the game. The numbers are there. The statistics line up with, you know, the quarterbacks that we’re talking about having in the conversation. You know, it’s a different year because we’re going to have a two way player and we’re going to have a running back that are going to make their trip to New York. And then there’s two spots up for grabs. I really don’t know. Why will Howard gets talked about the way he does, I guess, maybe it’s just a result of, know, there’s so much talent around him.

But there’s a ton of talent around Dylan Gabriel and he’s always mentioned in a Heisman conversation. Yeah, I think Will Howard should be. And I don’t know, I really can’t put my finger on it on why it is that he’s talked about the way he’s talked about it. And we’re part of that as well, right? There’s been moments where we probably haven’t given him the flowers that he deserves, but it is such a strange dynamic because all the numbers suggest that he should be there.

He’s the quarterback of the number two team in the country. And we could be a couple of weeks away from them being the number one team in the country. So yeah, you pose this of if they win the Big Ten Championship game, you know, could he edge out Dylan Gabriel and making that trip? I think it’s possible. I think it’s fair on the table. Maybe against Michigan, he can have that moment. Maybe against Oregon, he can kind of have that Heisman moment in a rematch. So we’ll see. But it really does surprise me that he’s not talked about.

in that conversation a bit more. And now that we’re at this point of the year, you know, Kirk Herbstreet always talks really highly of him. He gets kind of his his national spotlight, you know, whenever game day is talking about Ohio State Herbstreet speaks highly of Will Howard every time but outside of that, I guess just nationally doesn’t get I don’t know, he doesn’t get that pub for for whatever reason it is, I can’t put my finger on it.

Stephen Means (25:29.773)

you

Stephen Means (25:42.048)

wonder how much of that is preseason expectation because Dylan Gabriel is essentially doing what he did at Oklahoma just on a better team and also juiced up efficiency numbers just because of how Oregon ones their offense right and so there’s almost an element of like he’s the exact same quarterback as Bo Nicks he’s just gonna go to Oregon and do what he was doing at Oklahoma. Jackson Dart

You were maybe expecting him to take a step up should door Sanders is like his line might be more confident so he can put up these types of numbers Kurdish work is the Well, he was the darling and then he put 68 yards today So he’s not even in this conversation anymore Jalen Milro’s at Bama, right Carson Beck kind of came in with all the juice when you were came in with all the juice I think that’s it. I think that’s up in then drew out or is the guy that the NFL maybe loves

even if he doesn’t have the weapons to do it. Those are all the guys, if I’m remembering that correctly, who were ahead of him in the Heisenauts coming in this Saturday. So because of that, Andrew.

as the guy who’s been the most difficult on Will Howard throughout the year.

Andrew (26:46.355)

Most difficult with the unwell hour. It’s a funny way to say that.

Stephen Means (26:49.368)

Yeah, I went with that. Yes, that’s where I was going with that. You’ve been the hardest, you’ve been the most difficult grader on him and been the toughest on him all year. And it’s not completely invalid, right? There’s good reasons, right? Even today, he did the thing where it’s like, you need to stop doing that thing. It’s like, yeah, I need to stop doing that thing. And then he goes out there and he does that thing, right? This week, it’s the intentional grounding where it’s just like, hey, we’ll just take the sack, okay? The play is a wrap.

Andrew (26:57.309)

Sure, objectively.

Stephen Means (27:17.686)

What did you think was going to happen? I get what you’re trying to do, but how about you just not do that and just let it be what it is in that situation?

Where is Will Howard grown the most for you this year, but also based on what the expectation you have for him this year, the way that Ohio State talked about the expectation for quarterback play this year, where is he maybe better than you thought he would be?

Andrew (27:45.811)

Good question. I think he’s grown the most in that like intermediate accuracy range. Like there have been some throws over these last couple of weeks, like the throw to G Scott against Northwestern over the middle of the field. Like he’s he has gotten really, really good at like those throws that are just over the top of a corner in front of the safety over top of linebackers in front of a corner. Like those throws where you’re kind of dropping it in the bucket a little bit.

Stephen Means (27:48.428)

Why they pay me?

Andrew (28:15.953)

Those are the throws that I think he’s probably been maybe better than I thought he was going to be at. I think those things have been quite impressive for me. You know, I think that when we talked about Will Howard, I don’t think anybody looked at Will Howard coming into this year and went, okay, well, Will Howard is going to be, you know, the number one overall pick, right? Will Howard is going to be

what Joe Burrow was at LSU where he comes in and he throws for 5,500 yards and he throws for 60 touchdowns and they’re the greatest offensive college football. No one was ever kind of looking at that, but I think there was this expectation that when you have a veteran quarterback like that, he’s going to do a lot of things really well. And I think one of the reasons why I was so critical of him was because it just felt like sometimes there were just too many mistakes, one, too many errors that were

Not unbecoming, but they were not errors that a fifth year quarterback should be making, right? There were, were just things that a fifth year quarterback should not be doing. but I think today was his best game. I think at Ohio state, you know, Stefan had a really good line during one of our videos where, you know, I think, you know, it was like, I feel like for the last three weeks, I’ve said he’s played his best football. And I think that that’s probably right since the Penn state game, which he said was probably his worst game.

He’s played really well, so I think he’s kind of been exactly what I thought. I think over these last couple of weeks, though, that like intermediate passing game for him has gotten really, really dead.

Stephen Means (29:59.426)

Stefan, what’s most impressive thing about Will Howard so far?

Stefan Krajisnik (30:05.305)

Well, in terms of X’s and O’s, I agree with Andrew. So I’m to go a different route. There’s a confidence to him right now. I think he’s playing with little Moxie that we didn’t see. Maybe he just didn’t express it a ton early in year. Maybe he had it, but we didn’t see it as much. But we started to see it Penn State week, the way he talked about, you know, Penn State and them overlooking him as a prospect. And, you know, I wrote about this post game on cleavage.com.

Stephen Means (30:28.802)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (30:35.607)

The stuff with him, you know, pretending to put out a cigarette and saying Google that and you know, on the cameras that they caught him on the sideline or whatever like that stuff to me is all just like gamesmanship, like whatever guys talk trash like missing that he does it more than anyone and everyone loves it. You know, will how when you lose people are going to dish it back and that’s just kind of how that works. But seeing that kind of something like a bigger message to me of like.

Yeah, this Ohio State team saw the noise. It took it personally and had some confidence and you know, maybe a little cockiness to them going into this game. And that’s big man like that’s exciting. I think to see if you’re an Ohio State fan because you’re going into a game now where all the pressures on Ohio State all the pressures on Ryan Day and they’re playing with a ton of confidence and trying to prove a point and you want that. So that’s where I like where he’s developed is I think we’re starting to see him.

You’re kind of where that confidence a bit more where the emotions a bit on his sleeve. And when your quarterback’s doing that, I think that resonates, you know, through the rest of your roster. I it resonates through your staff too. mean that Brian heartlines tweet after the game I thought was great. I think it showed like even the staff is implementing this kind of mentality of like, we’re going to beat the crap out of you. And it doesn’t matter who you are. And I think you’re seeing them kind of, you know, show that the way that they act on the sidelines, the way that they, you know, talk post game.

It’s all kind of giving me a message of like, all right, this team’s like rolling. This team thinks they’re legit and they think they think they could beat everyone.

Stephen Means (32:09.678)

So I’ve got two things. I sent that to our Texas, should Will Howard be in the Heisen Trophy discussion? I gave him three choices, yes, no, and no, but another Buckeye should. 75 % said yes, 20 % said no, and then the other 5 % said no, but another Buckeye should. I don’t even know who that would be at this point. I think Jeremiah Smith had a case at some point, but it’s just like, it’s like we talked about when we did the wire receiver part. He just kinda exists.

He hasn’t really had the this is my game moment yet, but also he has to have that this is my game moment Maybe it’s Caleb downs now though. I am I’m taking early stake in the cave of Dallas Heisman Trophy race for 2025. I’m just

Stefan Krajisnik (32:54.575)

Maybe, maybe Jeremiah’s game is on the horizon.

Stephen Means (32:59.894)

I mean, listen, we’ve seen freshmen take over the Michigan game before. Crystal Lavey and Garrett Wolfson did it. So we’ve seen it before. And also we’ve seen freshmen receivers get on the playoff stage and take over too. this is, I didn’t say that about Jeremiah Smith as a disappointment because he has been far from a disappointment. I’m just saying he hasn’t done it yet, but also the longer he puts it off, I think the better for Ohio State because I would rather, if you’re an Ohio State fan, you would rather Jeremiah Smith have that game in December.

Stefan Krajisnik (33:03.203)

and their best corner is not going to be playing.

Stephen Means (33:29.748)

at this point, given what’s left.

I think two things impressed me about Wilhauer and it’s a sprinkler of what both of you are talking about. The entire preseason was about he was saying it, Ronday was saying it, we were saying it. He doesn’t have to be Superman. He’s just got to get Superman the ball. He’s got to be Alfred. But that’s true up until it’s not.

How the footballs can often work is eventually your quarterback’s gotta be a superhero in a moment, right? And even last year, JJ McCarthy was not the number one reason that Michigan won a national championship, Connor Stallions was. Now, the reasons that were football related, he was not number one. It was stout defense, elite offensive line, running game, but when he got on the field with Ohio State, Ohio State forced JJ McCarthy to

prove he could do it and he did it. think that’s fair to say we know Conor’s down. But he did it when they forced JJ to do some stuff JJ delivered because that’s how this game works. Eventually your quarterback. I don’t care if it’s Pop Warner. I don’t care if it’s high school college or even the NFL. Eventually your quarterback is going to have to do something other than just be a game manager. That’s how this works.

at all levels. And we weren’t sure Will Howard could do that. I think the Oregon game showed it was in there. It just led to a loss, so you could only credit it for so much. And then the Penn State game happened, and it felt like Ohio State won that game in spite of its quarterback. Today, they kind of won because of its quarterback. And that alone, he fixed problems.

Stephen Means (35:23.086)

As much as we want to talk about the, you did the thing that you probably shouldn’t do again. He also fixed it by throwing a 24 yard completion of the Cornell taking the 25 yard completion of the Cardinal tape. He also dropped in a throw to Jeremiah Smith, which was the epitome of throw a ball that a wide receiver one in the NFL is the only person on the field who can catch it. Right. He also threw some balls against Northwestern where he dropped it in a bucket to Jesus Scott. I didn’t see that in his game at all.

in September. Now granted they were playing Akron so it wasn’t needed but I had not seen anything from even when we’re going back to the spring and watching practice and fall camp practices that suggested, hey we get into a playoff game he’s gonna be able to do this and he’s doing that type of stuff now excuse me. That’s a different ball game. That’s a…

Hey, he gets on the field with Dylan Gabriel, which quarterback you’re taking and you can make a case that you should take Will Howard. He gets on the field with Texas and it’s it’s Quinn yours against Will Howard in this setting for 60 minutes. And you can feel comfortable saying I would take Will Howard. This is not about NFL potential. This is about simply for 60 minutes. Can Will Howard, I’ll play this quarterback. Outside of Shadur Sanders, I don’t think there’s a quarterback in the country that I don’t think he can win an individual matchup against for 60 minutes now. I didn’t think I was going to get there.

So it’s that and it’s also what you’re talking about, Stefan. Justin Fields was amazing. He wasn’t much of a personality. And unfortunately, maybe we would have saw more of it in 2020, but it was COVID. So we really didn’t get a chance to see it. CJ Stroud was amazing. He was more wholesome personality, at least in front of the camera, right? If you’ve gotten the chance to talk with him away from that, you know he’s got a bit of dog in him.

And the world is starting to find that out now that you’re seeing him in the NFL and he’s maybe more in a media space and you see him. It’s like, CJ always had that though. Yeah. He just wasn’t like that at Ohio state. Kyle McCord, very professional. Andrew, when you got a chance to cover that last year, it was a little more buttoned up. Not a lot of this emotion. You’re right, Stefan. We didn’t see it to the pins to the Penn state game, but did you really need to see him show emotion to play Marshall? Probably not the Oregon game. He started to show it a little bit.

Stephen Means (37:41.794)

But whether it’s the trash talking or the way you could clearly tell how much the Penn State game meant to him going into that game, the way he’s spilling his heart out about who this game next week is gonna matter to, it’s just been a while since Ohio State’s had a quarterback who wasn’t afraid to just be a dude.

and wasn’t afraid to like take on and grab it by the throat. Everything that comes with being an Ohio State quarterback. And I agree, you are seeing that funnel through the rest of this team, but.

This program kind of needed that. He is the perfect quarterback both in what his playing style is, but also his attitude towards things to where like, if you’re a fan, you’re like, I can get behind that guy. There’s no question marks about him. He just kind of lives it in a way that now he’s 24 years old, 23 years old. So he’s a little bit more comfortable versus CJ and Justin taking this job at 19, Kyle taking this job at 20, but still man.

You need that attitude a bit to play quarterback here. It’s been a while since they’ve had a guy who just owned it the way Will Howard owns it.

Stefan Krajisnik (38:50.019)

I think we’re seeing it a bit more with Ryan day as well. Like, there, you know, we bring up her street again, we got a chance to talk to him on on Friday afternoon. And he was talking about Ryan day and kind of the job he’s done. And he was saying the Penn State game, like he was impressed because Ryan, he felt like was really coaching to win and as opposed to like coaching to not lose. And we’re seeing that man day is aggressive. Like he’s

Stephen Means (38:52.652)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (39:16.439)

He’s trying to, you know, deliver some punches early in games. He’s trying to deliver some punches as game games go on. I think there is a level of confidence to him as well. I mean, the McAfee thing I thought was great. Like, know, he’s McAfee is hyping up Indiana again, being like, you know, Indiana’s Indiana’s for real. And Ryan Day was like, yeah, so are we walks away or didn’t walk away. But that was the end of the show there, or at least his interview. So there, Ryan Day, I think has it will Howard has it.

And that’s important when your head coach and your quarterback have, you know, that kind of confidence about them and that, that mantra or a Moxie, should say like that, that spreads. And this, this team is, I think, starting to build confidence in itself. And I think they’re starting to play better as a result. Those things kind of go hand in hand, right? I mean, you start playing better. The confidence is going to grow to it’s kind of like a chicken and the egg situation, but those things are going hand in hand and they look good and they probably feel good. And it’s resulting in some, you know, pretty impressive wins down the stretch here in November.

Stephen Means (40:20.898)

What do you guys think of Ryan Day scoring instead of taking a knee on that final play?

Stefan Krajisnik (40:24.409)

I don’t even want to have the conversation. That is being overblown beyond belief. And it’s the stupidest thing. And I can say this, I graduated from Indiana, I can say it. Indiana fans, it’s soft, the stuff that’s being said. It’s kind of soft. It’s kind of soft. Signetti, he would have done the same thing if he was in Ryan Day’s shoes. He’s done the same thing. They’ve beaten teams by like 40 all year.

Andrew (40:27.495)

Yeah, I don’t care.

Stefan Krajisnik (40:51.961)

You don’t think you don’t think he’s brought it up a couple of times. Like I think it’s I think it’s all I think it’s being overblown to be completely honest with you. I just think it’s nothing. It gets nothing.

Stephen Means (41:03.328)

Andrew, do you have thoughts?

Andrew (41:08.049)

No, I don’t care. Stop him. Like if you really care, stop him. Like the whole thing about like, Ohio State, they went for the touch. I don’t care. I really, I don’t. Like I think the people that were like dogging Signetti for saying, like Ohio State sucks and this and that and the other, I don’t care. He’s trying to hype up his fan base. He’s trying to hype up his team. The people that are saying Ohio State,

shouldn’t have scored that last touchdown. should have just taken a knee and end of the game. I don’t care about that either. I think trash talk is cool and good. I think that if you’re sitting at the one, you just had a player stop at the one yard line when he should have had a touchdown. And then they were like, okay, well, we’re just going to score. like, what’s the difference? I super did not care.

Stefan Krajisnik (41:56.123)

Yeah, it’s, I will say this funny. I was, was joking with you guys after the game of, know, we see Kirby smart just go on these rants about how great the SEC is and how all these SEC teams deserve to be in the playoff. we were talking, we’re like, you know, as maybe Ryan day is this, you know, with, with all the talk about Indiana, like, this a sit, you know, an opportunity for him to kind of, you know, do the Kirby smart and say, Hey, you know, the big 10 is the best conference and Indiana deserves to be in and blah, blah.

And then it’s literally just like, no, we’re just going to run up a score on that. We’re not going to help their cause whatsoever. And like, yes, I like that. I like it.

Stephen Means (42:32.654)

loved it. I’m gonna tell you why I love it. Because of three words. Leave. No. Doubt.

That’s what Ryan Day said back in Indianapolis at Big Ten Media Days. That’s what he said after the Oregon game when they lost. We’re supposed to leave no doubt and we didn’t. That is what he has been saying this entire season is about. Leave no doubt. Remember back during the Western Michigan game?

when Ohio State was calling timeouts and going forward on fourth down in plus territory when they probably could have just kicked the field goal. And then we’re asking, I think I asked Ryan Day about it. He’s talking about he had an opportunity to get those guys plays. And he’s also going, we have so much respect for Western Michigan coaches and all that stuff. That’s cool. Yeah, you do have respect for those. I don’t care. You’re better than them. Leave no doubt. 38 to 15. No doubt.

Indiana came in here thinking they were ready to fight with the big boys. So guess what? It’s the job of the big boy to do Let you know you’re not in our weight class yet. They should have played not like us when they were trolling Indiana I’m so serious. They should have played out like us and I’m saying this as a person who is still in the group of Indiana as a playoff team. They deserve a right to make the playoff But there’s levels to this and you’re not on this level

And whether it was Will Howard talking trash, even if he kind of hit it out of the door, he’s like, come on, man. It’s like, this is Ohio State we talking about here, man. Leave no doubt. I love negative energy in sports. You’re supposed to thrive off of it. This is competition because they should do it again next week. They should thrive off the negative energy. You leave no doubt.

Stephen Means (44:26.53)

and then you do it again when you play Oregon, and then you do it again in a playoff game, and you do it again in every round you get to, because that’s the point. You’ve been leaving doubt in games that matter for five years to the point that Ryan Day looked at those games and kept saying, we keep coming one or two plays short, so how about we stop relying on that and leave no doubt? You want to play with the big boys? Well, this is what the big boys are doing. So go get your trenches right.

Go get your players right, go get your dudes. Because we have our dudes. If you thought you were going to come in here, Signe, I think, said after the game that they think they thought they could handle the crowd noise a little bit better than they did. And Ohio State’s fans said, no, no, no, no doubt you couldn’t handle it. Leave no doubt. I love it. I’m with you guys. I even if it’s been overblown. Ryan Day didn’t choose sportsmanship. Good. You say sportsmanship for what is all zeros on the clock and you’re shaking hands. If there’s time on the clock.

Stop you want Trayvon Henderson and not score a touchdown tackle them you want them to not QB sneak? Stop cuz that’s what we do up here with the big boys. They score football They score points and they don’t try to win national titles. They don’t just try to make you feel good They don’t get on the postgame interview and start trying to plead with the committee about how hard the league is No, no, we’re gonna take over this league and then we’re take over country That’s what you do here. So I loved it. I loved every minute of it

Do it again next week and then do it again the week after that. I love everything about what Dan Lanning has been doing. That man called the timeout in Ann Arbor just to tell his team, look around, look where everybody went. Everybody went home. Ryan Day needs to keep that same energy all December. I loved it.

Stefan Krajisnik (46:15.067)

I agree. I also think if it’s late in the game against Michigan, he has a chance to score late touchdown. He is going to do it. let’s just let’s before Michigan before we have this discussion again with Michigan, he’s going to do it. I want to say one thing and we don’t need to go into, you know, massive college football wide discussion. I’m 100 % with you guys. Indiana should be in the college football playoff. I frankly don’t think it’s much of a debate. Now outside of that, we did see what it looks like when Indiana

Stephen Means (46:26.254)

Yeah!

Stefan Krajisnik (46:44.771)

is at the table with an Ohio State. I think we, Kiffin did this last year where Ole Miss was really good last year, but they couldn’t beat the Bamas and the Georgias. And he said after the Georgia game, like, the difference is in the trenches. And he went on the transfer portal, he got a bunch of Ole Miss fans, maybe the best D-line in the country this year. It obviously hasn’t manifested in the way, but they were able to beat Georgia. They were able to compete with the Georgia this year because they went out and they got better in the trenches. That’s what separates these powers and kind of the rest of the schools.

So I think Indiana should 100 % be in they’re not at Ohio State’s table, whatever I get that. I think there’s

five teams that can win a national title this year. And Ohio State is obviously more.

Stephen Means (47:24.366)

No, save it. Save it. I think that’s a good conversation for the Monday pot.

Stefan Krajisnik (47:31.739)

And that’s not to say I’m against the 12-team playoff. I like the 12-team playoff. I’m all for, you know, we’ll get a matchup between Indiana and, you know, Boise State or something like that. Like, I’m all for that stuff. Like, I like it being expanded. But even in the NBA, and NFL right now, could tell, like, in the NFL, could list five teams right now, and I’ll say one of those five teams is going to win the Super Bowl this year. Pretty confidently. And I like the playoff. I like that there’s more teams in it.

Stephen Means (47:41.39)

Yeah.

Stefan Krajisnik (48:00.475)

But at the end of the day, there’s only five teams I think realistically could win at all. And I think that’s where we are with college football as well. And I guess that’s a great segue and teaser to the next Buckeye Talk, I suppose.

Stephen Means (48:11.63)

Yeah, but also I think it’s fine to create a sister equation where all those teams can get in and also let a few others in who might get high, right? There’s nothing wrong with that situation scenario. But yeah, I think that’s what we’re gonna do Monday. Stephon and I, we’re gonna start a conversation about Ryan Day potentially flipping the rivalry back in Ohio State’s favor, but also that’s the other thing I wanna get into. We’ve seen enough football and at least in the Big 10.

Stefan Krajisnik (48:18.448)

Yeah.

Stephen Means (48:38.816)

Assuming everything goes the way we think it’s gonna go the big 10 championship game is set and so we can start to have that conversation of who do we realistically think has a legitimate shot to be holding up the trophy on January 20th and kind of map it around But seeing where they’re out the next two weeks. That’s where I want to start but it is officially Michigan week We’ve got some fun stuff set up for the week

Arrival reporter slash column is Jimmy Watkins will be joining us He and I are definitely going to get into an argument about Will Howard because we’ve been already doing it Behind the scenes and staff meetings for the last week and a half. There’s weird things happening in the college football

Stefan Krajisnik (49:15.227)

I thought the Arizona State game finished like 10 minutes ago.

Stephen Means (49:19.02)

Yeah, and apparently it didn’t.

Andrew (49:19.793)

Yeah, so they start the fan storm the field in the in Arizona. And then there was one second left. So they had to like get all the fans off the field. BYU threw a Hail Mary. I think they caught it at like the two and then they had they got to storm the field again. Yeah, it was crazy.

Stephen Means (49:37.72)

So it’s weird because that’s why we’re gonna have this customer because it doesn’t change anything in the big 12 Colorado and BYU are still on track to face each other in the big.

Stefan Krajisnik (49:44.742)

No, think Arizona State’s gonna be in the conference title game now.

Stephen Means (49:48.126)

Over who?

Stefan Krajisnik (49:51.579)

thing. Yeah, we can talk about it tomorrow if we could talk about the playoff.

Stephen Means (49:52.718)

We don’t have to figure that out. Yeah, we can talk about that tomorrow. We’ll go figure that out. For now, get the Tech 614-350-3315. Ohio State, one game left to clinch its spot in the Big Ten Championship game. And ironically enough, it’s against the very team that they’ve had to go through to get to the Big Ten Championship game in the previous format of the fourth team playoff. Once again, they have to do it again. Get the Tech 614-350-3315. 38-15, Ohio State’s second top five, victory of the year first.

Andrew (49:53.395)

Colorado? Yeah, we can talk about that later.

Stephen Means (50:21.974)

at home for Andrew Gellis and Stefan Kreislich, I’m Stephen Means and that was Fuck I Talk.