CLEVELAND, Ohio — In this episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast, Ethan Sands and Chris Fedor explore the implications of Dean Wade’s availability on the team’s dynamics and how his and Max Strus’ return will affect player roles and minutes distribution.
Takeaways:
- The Cavs are navigating roster changes due to injuries.
- Dean Wade’s return is crucial for team dynamics.
- Max Strus’ impact on the offense is significant.
- Injuries are fluid and require careful management.
- Dean Wade’s performance metrics indicate his value.
- Isaac Okoro’s role is evolving under new coaching strategies.
- Isaac Okoro and Dean Wade have comparable skill sets.
- Player roles will shift with the return of Wade and Max Strus.
- Understanding player impact requires looking beyond the numbers.
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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.
Ethan Sands
What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. And today, we are going to get into a topic that I feel like a lot of our listeners, subtexters have been waiting to hear for a while. I’ve teased it a couple of different times because it didn’t feel like the right time, but now it does.
The conversation of what happens with this cast rotation roster when Max Struce and Dean Wade return. Mainly this conversation will focus a little bit more heavily on Max Struce, obviously because he’s been out a little bit longer, but Dean Wade is also a player that makes a lot of impact for this team. He has been out for a consecutive six games in a row and it feels like he could be leaning toward a return shortly.
Kenny Atkinson said pre-game ahead of the Boston Celtics game that he doesn’t feel like it could be a return for Dean Wade on Tuesday against the Washington Wizards. But Chris might have heard a little differently. What did you hear, Chris?
Chris (01:19.454)
You know, after Kenny made those comments, a lot of people close to Dean and a lot of people around the organization were just kind of caught off guard by those comments, to put it the best way that I think I can at this point. I had one source text me that’s news to us. So it just felt like Kenny kind of misspoke in his pregame about Dean.
And he kind of went a little bit further, like one extra step further than he needed to about if he could have just said, you know, I don’t know how close he is. have to talk to the medical staff and get a general sense from them. My preference would be for him to have one full contact practice before he resumes to play, before he’s cleared to return. like Kenny then took it another step further and said,
well, I don’t expect him on Tuesday. And that’s the one that kind of raised eyebrows around the locker room and inside the organization. And even Dean was kind of caught off guard by that when he got wind of it too, because he was in the middle of like a rigorous workout where he was trying to do everything that he could do behind the scenes. And he was at the…
Rocket Mortgage Fieldhouse doing that when he got a text from somebody who heard what Kenny Atkinson said. And a lot of people were just kind of confused by it. So I do think Kenny misspoke. We’ve talked about this a few times on the podcast. He’s tossed out some various stats that haven’t always checked out. He said some things that you kind of have to go back and fact check and
You when he made those comments about Dean, people were like, wait, what? Hold on. And like I said, on the previous podcast, Dean wanted to play against Boston. There was some hope and there was some belief and there was some speculation internally that he was going to be able to get clearance in time to play for Boston. Now that didn’t happen. He didn’t return for that game. but he, the Cavs didn’t have a full practice today.
Chris (03:42.942)
They didn’t have the scrimmaging, the full contact, the stuff that theoretically Kenny Atkinson wanted to see from Dean as kind of like that last hurdle before he could get clearance to return. But because Dean wants to play and because he feels like he’s healthy enough to play, he asked to participate in a three on three workout with some of the other players, kind of the end of roster guys that were there.
I’m getting their shots up, doing the things that they typically do either during a voluntary shoot around or a get what you need day or a recovery day. They don’t have as much recovery as somebody like Donovan Mitchell, Jared Allen, Darius Garland, high minute players. So they have been using those kinds of quote unquote off days as workout sessions, three on three opportunities, two on two games.
things along those lines and Dean wanted to participate in that because he wanted to show members of the organization, the coaching staff, the medical staff that he’s ready to go. That he is ready for some kind of green light from the medical staff that they will say, you’ve done enough behind the scenes. We’re happy with where you’re at in your progress. You can play against the wizards. And that was Dean’s way of trying to do that today.
in the three on three workout and I’m told that he looked good, he moved well and about two hours after I got that note and I posted it to subtext by the way so all the subtexters they got it this afternoon as soon as I got it but two hours later the injury report came out and it was listed as questionable and I think that’s obviously a change from what Kenny Atkinson said on Sunday.
and kind of what he was thinking in terms of the status of Dean Wade when he spoke pregame on Sunday and him being listed as questionable obviously paves the way for him to potentially return tomorrow against the Wizards and I would not be surprised again these things are very very fluid he could wake up tomorrow and his ankle doesn’t feel the same way that it did today after that increased physical activity.
Chris (06:04.594)
So these things are very, very fluid, but I would not be surprised if he placed.
Ethan Sands (06:09.598)
And we understand, right? Like injuries, as you mentioned, are fluid, but it’s never the day that they’re working out that they’re worried about. It’s always the day after. And you have to reevaluate people and players after they go through that, those kind of test workouts and things of that nature. and I said this on the other podcast yesterday about how Dean Wade during the playoffs last year, kind of forced his way back into the rotation. said he hadn’t worked out that hard.
Chris (06:17.427)
That’s right. Yep.
Ethan Sands (06:39.51)
his life because he had hadn’t played in almost two months or over two months I forget which one it was and He got back and then had to talk to us unfortunately for him because everybody was gonna ask the same question about his knee and he said there were tears and things in there very candidly and Didn’t want to give the true exact wording of what happened and all these different things
Chris (06:43.508)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (07:06.782)
and then basically came back and played against the Boston Celtics in the last three games of the Eastern Conference Semi-finals on one leg. So this is a much different situation from that because for what it seems like Chris is the only thing holding back Kenny Atkinson and the clearance staff on the medical team for Dean Wade now is that they haven’t seen him play in contact for a couple of weeks. And I think that’s really important to get him back.
Chris (07:31.697)
Right.
Ethan Sands (07:34.934)
to full strength and ready to play against these guys. And I obviously, you know me, checking social media, all these different things, and kind of weighing the options of what fans are wanting from him. There’s obviously the crazy fanatics that are like, he’s soft, he’s always hurt. And like, that is a fair adjustment and fair mention because of what he’s gone through for the last couple of seasons, especially down the stretch.
Chris (07:53.812)
Yeah
Ethan Sands (08:04.49)
But I feel like it’s really early for that this year, one. And two, there are the other fans that are like, unless he is 200 % healthy, we do not need to see him on Tuesday night against the Washington Wizards. Like, we are confident. And the other guys on the roster to be able to beat Jordan Poole and a Kyle Kuzma-less Washington Wizards at that. What do you feel about the Dean way situation?
Chris (08:24.212)
Mm.
Ethan Sands (08:33.568)
how the calves and organization should operate during this period, what’s your take on the two-way option when it comes to playing him rather than sitting him and all those different things.
Chris (08:47.838)
think it’s actually a good game for him to come back, if we’re being honest, Donovan Mitchell has talked about this, Atkinson has talked about this, other players have talked about this. Given the nature of this schedule, how condensed it is, the limited practice time that they’ve had because of these every other game situations, and because of these voluntary shoot-arounds that they have from time to time, they have to use the regular season in different kinds of ways.
And part of what they can use the regular season for is either guys shaking off the rust coming back from injury or experimenting with lineups and combinations or trying different things schematically on the defensive end of the floor, like shifting to a zone at a moment’s notice, going to a box and one every now and then. And it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’ve practiced those things behind the scenes, but
without coming out and saying it and disrespecting the other opponent, the Cavs are in a position, the number one team in the Eastern Conference, where there’s a little bit of latitude that they have. And they’re able to use in-game situations to practice things, to learn about themselves, to do various things. And that doesn’t mean that they’re sitting there saying, hey, we’re going to punt this game against the Washington Wizards or…
We’re going to put this game over the weekend against the Charlotte Hornets or something along those lines based on the schedule. But you have to take every single meaningful opportunity that you have, whether it’s a shoot around, whether it’s a practice, whether it’s an individual workout or whether it’s a game to figure things out, to get answers that you need for what is to come for the Cavs. Ethan, there has always been a big picture.
It’s one of the reasons why they’re willing to do this with Evan Mobley in terms of making him more involved on offense, making him more of a focal point, even if that leads to bad shooting nights, even if that leads to, you know, situations where Donovan Mitchell has to take a step back and he’s in a role offensively that isn’t as familiar to him because of what they think it will mean in the long run, because of how they believe they’ll benefit moving forward.
Chris (11:04.744)
So I think for Dean, if he’s able to play, if he feels up to it, if the Cavs feel like he’s healthy enough to play, it’s a perfect opportunity to get those meaningful reps in a game situation in a game that doesn’t really have the same kind of stakes, the same kind of intensity, the same kind of competitive level as what Thursday night will against the Denver Nuggets. So shake off the rust.
You know, work out some kinks, try and get re-acclimated, try and figure out where you potentially fit in this rotation, where your shots are going to come from, like all that kind of stuff. And it doesn’t mean that Dean has forgotten that, but get back into the rhythm of a meaningful basketball game against the Wizards, even if it’s 10 minutes, even if it’s 15 minutes, even if it’s not what it was for him before he suffered this injury.
And then I think that would make him better prepared in a game against a team like the Denver Nuggets. And I think that would allow him to be more comfortable, more confident in that game against the Denver Nuggets. know, coming back and having that be your first game in a game that’s probably got like more playoff level intensity. Again, you can’t replicate that in December, but more so than what it would be.
for the Washington Wizards, especially given that the Cavs are already eliminated from the NBA Cups. So I think it would be beneficial for the Cavs and I think it would be beneficial for Dean to play on Tuesday if all parties agree that he’s ready to go and he’s not going to put himself at risk for further injury by doing that. In saying all of that, like I think the Cavs have also given themselves this little buffer, Ethan, to be as cautious as possible
when it comes to injuries and try and manage this schedule as much as possible when it comes to Caris Laverte, when it comes to Donovan Mitchell, when it comes to Jared Allen at times, maybe when it comes to Darius Garland because of the load that he’s carrying on both ends of the floor. Like I said, there’s a bigger picture in play and operating with a cautious approach to injury and maintenance and recovery.
Chris (13:31.344)
is the right way to go for this team.
Ethan Sands (13:35.498)
I I looking at the schedule, I definitely was like, hey, it’s the Wizards. You might want to come back now before you’re asked to guard Joker on Thursday if you’re healthy enough to play in that game. Right. And then obviously the Charlotte Hornets run at a breakneck pace. And then I went back after like, that was my initial thought and went and did the actual research. And the Washington Wizards are one of the leaders in pace in the NBA right now.
Chris (13:43.378)
Yeah.
Ethan Sands (14:05.224)
So it’s not like they’re not going to, right. They’re going to get up and down the floor and Jordan pool is going to take shots from 30 as soon as he crosses half court whenever. But I think when you talk about the level of competition, obviously Kyle Kuzma is going to be out. So that’s going to add another wrinkle for who Dean Wade would have to guard and all these different things. I just think it’s definitely smarter for the Cavs to have him come back and kind of ramp up at his own speed.
Chris (14:05.502)
Yeah. They don’t play well, but they play fast, man. That’s one thing you can say about them.
Yep.
Ethan Sands (14:34.974)
rather than having to come back and get thrusted in, as you mentioned, against the Denver Nuggets or the Charlotte Hornets who are also playing well, even though their record might not speak to that as much as it has been recently. But Chris, I want to get into Max Struce’s and Dean Way’s impact on this team and why it’s important for them to come back and how that can impact what they already have going on.
Chris (14:45.426)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (15:02.838)
Right? Because we’ve seen that the Cavs have thrown out that starting lineup of Darius, Donovan, Isaac, Evan, and Jarrett for the extended period that Dean Wade has been out. They also did that kind of switching in and out when Dean Wade was hurt earlier on into the season. It’s different to see a lineup that has had all of these different guys in it, especially when you talk about minutes.
What makes these two players so integral or so important to what the Cavs are doing, and especially in a system like Kenny Atkinson’s?
Chris (16:13.63)
want to put words in Max’s mouth here, but the sense that I got and from talking to people that would know a little bit better than me in terms of the X’s and O’s, in terms of the strategies involved, in terms of the play calls and the sets, there was a belief that Max was just not comfortable in the Cavs offense last year. That it didn’t fit his skill set.
And he often rolled his eyes at some of what the Cavs were trying to do offensively. And he wasn’t the only one, right? I mean, there’s a reason why the Cavs moved on from J.B. Bickerstaff this off season. There’s a reason why coming off the playoff loss against the New York Knicks two years ago, the front office basically pulled J.B. Bickerstaff aside, sat him down in a room and said, you need to make this offense more dynamic. You need to make this offense more creative.
And it wasn’t an ultimatum. It was just saying, that’s how we’re going to take the next step. It’s great that you’ve turned us into this lockdown defensive team that is top five in defense that can lean on that. And that’s our identity. But if we’re going to take the next step with the talent that we have, with the additions that we’ve made in free agency over the last couple of years, they had just brought in Max Trues. They had just brought in George Niang. They had just signed Ty Jerome. The Cavs front office wanted to see differences.
within the Cavs offense and they didn’t see enough of them from JB. And I think the players had that same feeling as well saying, is this the right offense for my skillset? Is this the right offense for this group of players? Is this the right style for us to fit best in? And I think it speaks volumes that Max was as impactful as he was at both ends of the floor.
playing within an offensive system that didn’t always cater to his strengths, that didn’t even account for how to best put him in the best positions to succeed or how to best utilize him. And I’m not saying that when he comes back, Kenny Atkinson is going to make Max Struz a focal point of the offense, but I think there’s enough rhythm to it. I think there’s enough freedom to it. I think there’s enough movement involved. I think there’s enough of a democratic
Chris (18:37.876)
approach that Max is going to be just by nature involved in the actions that they run in the things that they do. think you’re going to see him setting screens for Donovan Mitchell and making defenses make tough decisions. Are they going to switch that right away? Are they going to keep two on Max Drews and maybe give a little bit of crevice for Donovan Mitchell?
If he screens off the ball for Darius Garland to run some actions that way, what’s the defense going to do? Are they going to trail Max Struce coming off of these screens? Are they going to go under on Max Struce coming up? There’s just so many different facets that Max brings. And even JB Bickerstaff talked about it last year, Ethan, he creates havoc. Just his presence alone, his reputation alone, his movement, his constant movement.
There are few players in the NBA that move as much as Max does on a possession to possession basis. It’s basically Steph Curry for off ball cutting, Clay Thompson for off ball cutting, and then Max Struess and Sam Merrill in terms of the rankings from last year. So that’s the kind of movement and flow that Max can bring to this particular offense. And he did it last year in an offense that was very different than this one.
So I just think there’s going to be a natural level of involvement for Max because of the kind of creativity that Kenny Atkinson brings, the kind of variance that Kenny Atkinson brings to this offense, the constant passing, the constant looking for driving kicks, the constant trying to get other guys involved throughout the course of a possession and stuff like that. And I think that, I think that caters to Max’s skillset. think that
makes players happier when they’re that level of involved on a possession to possession basis. So for him to be as impactful and as effective as he was last year in that kind of offense, it’s just the Cavs are looking at a situation saying, well, this one suits his game. So what’s that going to mean for Max when he’s in this system? When he’s used this kind of way, what’s that going to mean for our offense?
Chris (20:57.8)
when we bring another threat like that who brings a different kind of dynamic and a different kind of skill set. You Dean Wade’s not moving around the court like Max Drews is. He’s not creating the same kind of havoc that Max does. He doesn’t draw the same kind of attention that Max does. He’s not the same kind of passer that Max is. And you can say the same thing for Isaac. And this isn’t to say
that Isaac doesn’t have a place on this team or within this rotation. And it’s not to say that he doesn’t do good things that have allowed him to find his niche within this team. He does do good things and he does bring value to this team. And he has evolved slightly on the offensive end of the floor and he has improved his three point percentage, which is something that, you know, fans and the Cavs have been demanding since
They drafted him with a top five pick a couple of years ago. And since the Cavs gave him the contract that they did this past off season, you see small improvements from a guy like Isaac, but he’s just never going to be the impactful offensive player that that maxes. He’s just not. And again, this isn’t to bash Isaac. I think the perfect role for him on any team.
that has legitimate championship aspirations is like the seventh or eighth guy in a rotation. Bring energy, bring toughness, bring defense, bring all that stuff off the bench. But to me, he’s not a 25 to 30 minute a night player on a championship level team because there are just too many holes in his offensive game. There are too many flaws within his game. And no number is perfect. No stats.
tells the entire story. But I think it’s pretty telling, Ethan, that on a team with the number one offense in the NBA, on a team that a couple of days ago when I looked at it last had the number one point differential in the entire NBA, and the league’s best record, statistically speaking, the Cavs have a better net rating with Isaac Okoro off the floor than with him on the floor.
Chris (23:19.752)
Their net rating with Isaac on the floor combining offense and defense with him on the floor in 397 total minutes is 7.5 with him off the floor in 611 minutes. It’s 9.9. They are statistically a better team with Isaac off the floor. And again, that doesn’t mean that he doesn’t bring value and it doesn’t mean that he didn’t do some positive things.
In the win the other night against Boston, his defense against Jason Tatum down the stretch. Good. That shot that he made, the two threes that he made, the pass that he made to Evan Mobley. You’ve got to give him credit for those little plays. But the flaws for Isaac show up more when he plays longer stretches, when he plays more minutes. And I just think with Max coming back, it allows Isaac
to be who he is. allows Isaac to be in a role that best suits his game. The same thing when Dean Wade comes back, because it limits the lengthy stretches that the Cavs have to rely on Isaac. And then Isaac doesn’t become a needed starter for this team. He becomes like a luxury piece off the bench. And that’s who he is. And that’s how the Cavs are paying him.
because they understand the strengths he’s needed on this team. The toughness, the competitiveness, fighting through screens, point of attack, defense, guarding multiple positions, versatility. He does cut off the ball. Those are strengths of his, but he also has a lot of weaknesses. And I just believe that those weaknesses show up when he gets these extended stretches, when he gets these extended opportunities in the starting lineup and when he starts playing.
a few more minutes per night than what he probably should be playing on this caliber team.
Ethan Sands (25:23.702)
And I think there’s truth to what you’re saying, and I think there’s also room for Isaac to get a little bit more credit as well. But I want to reiterate the offensive rating and defensive rating for all three of the guys that we’re talking about when it comes to per 100 possessions based on the statistics on basketball reference. for last year, because obviously Max Drews doesn’t have any stats from this year. He’s missed every single game so far.
and we still haven’t heard back about what his timeline could be for a return. So I want to start there before we get into the statistics-based stuff a little bit more. Chris, have you heard anything about Max Struce, what he’s been doing, how he’s evaluated, and all those different things when that official statement could be made by the CAHPS?
Chris (26:18.642)
don’t sense that his return is imminent. I sense that he’s still in the early stages of the on-court basketball activities when it comes to returning from an injury. There’s all these different things that the medical staff, the trainers, the coaches, members of the front office, there’s all these different things that they want to see from a player.
as they’re progressing, they’re rehabbing an injury. And when you hear that a guy is basically limited still at this point of his recovery to one-on-o workouts, which is the case for Max. And, you know, by the end of this week, it could progress to one-on-one, it could progress to two-on-two. But when you start talking about one-on-o workouts, it tells you that there’s still a ways that that guy has to go. There are still some things
Physically that he’s just not able to do at this stage of his recovery and the last time that I saw him work out It was just standstill shooting. It was free throws. It was very limited movement I think the only extension that he really made to his left or to his right or a sharp cut or something like that was like one pivot or one plant foot moving forward so that he could extend for a layup or something like that, so it just feels like
Number one, the Cavs are continuing to be cautious with it. They have enough depth where I think they feel like they can, right? Even though, like, I don’t think Isaac and Dean are as good of options as Max in the starting lineup, they are playable options in the meantime. And the Cavs can get away with Dean as a starter to not rush Max back.
or Isaac is a starter to not rush Max back, or just play Karis LaVert’s starter minutes coming off the bench to not rush Max back. And I just don’t think they’re in any hurry. I know Max is a competitor and he always wants to be out there and it’s killing him to not be part of what the Cavs are doing because he was so excited for this season and he was so excited for the changes that they were going to make on the offensive end of the floor.
Chris (28:41.778)
especially given how they fit his individual skill set and how they benefit the team as a whole. But it just doesn’t feel like Max’s return is imminent within the next week or something. I know somebody who is close to Max, who has known Max for a long time. A couple of weeks ago, they mentioned to Max, hey, it’s going to be nice that your return is going to happen right around the time that the Cavs play in Miami.
So you can have that return to Miami. And there was a little bit of hesitancy from the Cavs and from Max when, when that conversation was brought up. So I’d be surprised if he makes it back for, for the Cavs, going to Miami and in the Max, the Max streus quote unquote homecoming, even though it’s not home Chicago, Illinois, that’s home for him, but basketball homecoming.
I’d be surprised if he was ready for that because it just doesn’t feel like he’s that level of close right now.
Ethan Sands (29:45.194)
Yeah, and I mean, the homecoming part of it makes me chuckle, especially because especially because he started his career in Chicago, right? Even if it was just. Right, right.
Chris (29:51.335)
I know, right?
Yeah. Basketball homecoming fits, feel like. Because that’s when he became, you know, closer to this version of Max Struce.
Ethan Sands (30:06.39)
100%. So let’s get a little bit nerdy. Let’s get into some of these numbers. 100 possessions based on basketball reference. I’m going to start with Dean because this is how I have it opened up on my screen. It goes Dean, Max, Isaac. And then we’re going to just go on through. So per 100 possessions, when it comes to offensive rating, last year, when 2023, 2024, offensive rating for Dean Wade was 121, defensive rating 111.
10 points, it’s pretty good. Max Struce per 100 possessions last year. has not played this year, so his stats don’t exist for 2024, 2025. But last year, 112 offensive rating, 114 defensive rating per 100 possessions. Isaac Okoro last season, 2023, 2024, offensive rating per 100 possessions.
121, defensive rating 115. So in the number for Isaac Okoro’s offensive rating, based on what I’m reading for off basketball reference right now for this season is astronomical. He has an offensive rating listed at 136 with a defensive rating of 115, which is just out of this world when you look at everything that is going on with the offense, all those different things. So.
Obviously, is a credit to not only his scoring, but how well the entire team around him, where players are Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, Evan Mobley, Jared Allen, are having some of, or starting off the season with some of the best seasons of their careers, that feeds into his offensive rating as well, right? So you talk about how that could be impacting those numbers, could be a little bit inflated, but then you look at Dean Wayne’s numbers, who gets to play with the same players.
He’s played in 13 games, seven starts compared to Isaac Okoro’s 19 games, 12 starts. Defensive rating for the 2024-2025 season is 111, offensive rating 118. So there’s a little bit more conversation to be had about what Dean Wade does offensively for the Cavs rather than what Isaac Okoro does. And I know you mentioned reputation a whole lot.
Ethan Sands (32:30.058)
But I wanted you to get into that a little bit more when it comes to the decision between Dean Wade and Isaac Okoro, two very comparable defensive players because of how they can guard. Isaac more so one through four, Dean Wade more so two through five, depending on matchups. And there are players on the Cavs organization that can argue and will argue with you if you ask them that Dean Wade can guard one through five, especially if you mentioned Cape Cunningham.
Chris (32:42.799)
Hmm.
Chris (32:57.364)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (32:59.078)
as the point guard because that’s one of his main matchups. But Chris, when it comes to the offensive end of the ball, and I want to just leave Max Drews out of this for a little bit because I feel like he’s, like you said, not imminent to return. So we’ll have a little bit more in-depth conversation on that later. But with Dean and Isaac, indeed, Dean potentially coming back, obviously Isaac more than likely will continue to be in that starting role until Dean Wade is back up to speed and then
Chris (33:12.18)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (33:26.282)
there’s another conversation to be had with Kenny Atkinson, but on the offensive end of the ball, what do you think stands out that makes Dean Wade to you a better offensive weapon than what Isaac Okoro does, especially talking about how Kenny Atkinson has kind of evolved Isaac’s game in a, as a roller, as a screener and a shooter. So he’s in different things that don’t hide him or don’t create him to be someone that can just be left in the corner like he has been.
Chris (33:28.51)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (33:55.68)
where teams can just leave him alone.
Chris (33:59.06)
Yeah, I don’t think there are significant differences, honestly, between Isaac and Dean. Stylistically, they’re a little bit different. Like Dean can shoot it a little bit better on the move, but I don’t think it’s a significant difference between those two guys. think, you know, if we’re talking about the offense and the impact that each player makes, it’s almost a wash, honestly.
I think maybe Dean has a different kind of reputation as a shooter, as a spacer, because there’s more volume to his game. He’s more willing to shoot from the perimeter than somebody like Isaac is. He brings more size. There’s a benefit to that, certainly. When you’re talking about shooting over guys and the kind of space that he needs to get his shot off.
But again, I think it’s almost like a wash. but statistically Dean over the last two years, despite the reputation, statistically, he’s been a better defender than Isaac. And statistically, the Cavs are a better defensive team with Dean on the floor than Isaac. And that to me is the thing that, that I focus on again, no stat, no one stat is going to tell the entire story. And everybody’s going to look at different ones.
that they consider most meaningful. You know, there are stats that Kenny Atkinson considers more meaningful than Tai Liu. They’re both really good coaches. They’ve both been coaching for a long time. They’ve both had a level of success, but they see the game a little bit differently. They have different things that they believe in. They have different things that matter to them. Just like I have different things that I look at compared to
some fans or compared to you, Ethan, or compared to some other writers when it comes to evaluation. But, but something that matters to me and really, shapes a lot of my thinking is not just the conversations that I have with smart people around the NBA, scouts, executives, players, coaches, but I try to look at how a team performs with certain lineups.
Chris (36:23.132)
with certain players. look at team on-off stats and you know the team on-off stats last year, this year, they’ve always been favorable to Dean and teams for whatever reason and I don’t know that I’ve been able to nail down this reason but for whatever reason teams perform better whether it was the Cleveland charge
whether it was Kansas State, whether it was his high school team. He plays a winning style of, he’s a glue guy. He’s always been a glue guy. And I just think teams function better when Dean Wade is out there and the numbers back that up. So far this year, the Cavs, their numbers with Dean on the floor in 285 minutes,
They have an offensive rating close to 120. They have a defensive rating of 107, right around 107. That is a net rating of 12.9. They are 12.9 points per 100 possessions better than their opponent in the minutes that Dean Wade is on the floor. In the minutes that Dean Wade is off the floor, they are 7.4 points per 100 possessions better.
than their opponent. like, yeah, they’re still going to be a quality basketball team because they have depth, because they have talent across the roster, because they have other guys that can step up. But the numbers continue to back up the eye test. Dean helps them. Dean helps them in a lot of ways. And I just feel like the longer he’s out, the Cavs feel that absence a little.
They were undefeated. They were undefeated with him in the starting lineup and they were playing really, really well with him in the starting lineup. And it’s not to say that like he was the reason why they were undefeated, but he does things that fit well in that starting group. does things that the Cavs need. And he does things that help a team.
Chris (38:47.272)
consistently win basketball games and he’s done it at every single level. And when you have that kind of when you have that kind of impact as a low touch, low volume, low maintenance player, I think there’s a fit for that kind of guy, especially especially around star players.
that can elevate him offensively or take the bulk of the responsibility offensively so that he doesn’t have.
Ethan Sands (39:23.254)
I think for me when it comes to deciphering between the two, it’s always the hesitation, right? There has been more hesitation when it comes to Isaac Okoro throughout his career, whenever he touches the ball outside of like the first year he got to the NBA when they told him that this is your show to run it. when Isaac touches the ball, we talked about it last season. It was an immediate jab step.
Chris (39:44.212)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (39:51.342)
and going to the lane or making a pass or all these other things, right? This year it’s been much better. There’s been an added confidence. There’s been less of the jab step, less of the hesitation. Even if it’s just for a millisecond, like the hesitation that he has in his brain where he has to make the decision to shoot the ball rather than just catching the ball and going up with it is different from what Dean Wade does, right? And we’ve seen Dean Wade also has
a little bit of that hesitation, but there has been a different level for Dean way when it comes to being yelled at by Donovan Mitchell, being told by Kenny Atkinson and Jamie Baker staffs at points last year where if he doesn’t shoot the ball, he’s going to come out. And that to me, it triggers something different in your brain that makes you want to shoot the basketball. Cause obviously, and you say it, Chris,
Chris (40:28.68)
Bye!
Ethan Sands (40:48.98)
A lot of players want to be on the court, right? They want to help win games. They want to show that they can make an impact. And if you’re able to do that by doing one thing, which is what you’re known for on the offensive end, which is kind of like Sam Merrill, but sorry, Sam, you’re not six, nine and a half, six, 10. Like that makes a completely different outlook. And you talk about the numbers from last year, right? And everybody points to.
Chris (41:05.982)
Right.
Ethan Sands (41:15.686)
Isaac Okoro and Dean Wade shot the same percentage. Literally 39.1 % was what they shot last year from three point range. Great. Then look a little bit closer or if you’re on ESPN, look to your left and see the difference in shot attempts, right? Isaac Okoro, three point attempts, 5.6 per game, 2.2 makes. Then you go to Dean Wade, nine.
Three-point attempts compared to what Isaac Okoro had at 5.6 making 3.5 and we’ve talked about this the entire year You shoot more threes more likely to go in that’s how the numbers work out, right and the Cavs have leaned on that Exponentially this year like if we can get a three earlier into the shot clock when Dean Wade’s running the floor and getting up there And down and all those different things
Chris (42:01.076)
you
Ethan Sands (42:15.348)
That’s going to help more than Isaac Okoro using his speed, because we know how athletic, how powerful he is. Isaac darts for the basket. That’s just what is in his MO. He’s going to get to the basket. He’s going to do all, like, cut to the lane. And that helps you. It’ll get you two points. It’ll show off what he’s been able to do. But Dean Wade, either running to the corner or running to his favorite spot, it feels like, on the court on the wing of the three point line, like that, again, I said this yesterday and it had a little bit of a reaction to it. Two is less than three, Chris. Like that happens. And when you talk about the impact of these guys and you said it, it’s very comparable on both ends of the floor. Dean Way can just guard a little bit differently than Isaac Acora, what I mentioned earlier. And you mentioned it with the starters group, right? Like,
Evan Mobley and Jared Allen mentioned it to start the season. It’s different when you look to your left and you say, he’s 6′10″. I don’t have to worry about like Jason Tatum trying to barrel in and then coming to help him. It’s different if Darius Garland is 6′1″. And I feel like you feel at like seven foot, 6′9″, as Jared Allen told me he is with his Afro, that you have to go help.
Chris (43:23.449)
Mm-hmm.
Ethan Sands (43:40.416)
Dean Wade has this aura to him on the defensive end where you don’t need to help him. He’s gotta be able to do his own thing, even if he’s not racking up steals or blocks. Isaac is kind of the same way, he’s just six foot five. So there’s no, there’s no like, there’s nothing that either of them do that makes them that much better or worse than each other that they can really control. It’s size, strength.
Chris (44:08.136)
Mmm.
Ethan Sands (44:08.626)
and what they bring to a different frequency and volume that makes them stand out differently when you look at the numbers and when you look at the impact when it comes to this offensive system.
Chris (44:21.416)
I completely agree.
And again, there are different numbers that people are going to lean on to back up what they’re saying. But Dean Wade is a 98th percentile defender in terms of impact, estimated plus minus according to dunks and threes. 98th percentile in the conversation with Draymond Green, Dyson Daniels, Evan Mobley, Bam, Franz Wagner, your favorite player.
Victor Wemba Nyama and That’s the category. That’s the company that Dean was in last year, So it’s not just like flukey numbers like every single number that is intended to measure impact and winning and value It gives the edge to somebody like Dean and look it also benefits his numbers. I think we can be perfectly honest about this
It benefits his numbers that he happened to be missing at a time that the Cavs were not playing as well and they were losing games. But I also don’t think it’s a coincidence that they didn’t lose when he was available. Again, he’s not the best player in the world, right? I’m not saying that he’s Jokic. I’m not saying that he’s Luka Dončić. I’m not saying that he should be an MVP candidate, but he helps this particular team. And I just don’t think we can…
bury our head in the sands and just ignore what all these different numbers are trying to tell us about Dean. I’ve been talking about Dean Wade. I’ve been raving about his impact and the effect that he has on this basketball team for two and a half years now. And I feel like people are starting to understand it a little bit better at the beginning of the season.
Chris (46:17.384)
when he was doing the things that he was doing, when he was filling in for Max Druse before Dean ultimately stepped out of the lineup for two straight games. I do think you, here’s one of the ways that I think the Cavs will benefit from Dean coming back. And this might help people understand. Like, I think it just puts people in the roles that they should probably be in.
a little bit easier for Kenny Atkinson to do that. And what I mean by that is, you know, during this recent stretch, with Max out at the same time that Dean was out, and there was also some crossover there with Karis Levert.
What it meant was Kenny Atkinson had to go with Craig Porter Jr. in some smaller lineups. Or it meant that Sam Merrill had to play extended minutes, more time. It meant that the usage of, of George Niang changed. Right. And when you have, when you have more available bodies, including Dean, that can play multiple positions, defend multiple positions, now the Cavs don’t need as much from George Niang.
Right? Now, now George can be like more in the role that it seems like a lot of fans want him to be in. Come off the bench, space the floor, knock down a few threes. But if it doesn’t happen for you in the first half, if you don’t make a positive impact in the first half, if you’re not knocking down those threes and you’re getting picked on on defense, Cavs don’t have to go to George in the second half. Right? Or they don’t have to go to
Sam Merrill in the second half. Because they have somebody like Dean who can occupy those minutes and slide those guys a little bit further down the depth chart. And I think when you’re missing Dean, you feel that absence a little bit more because the bench is thinner. Because the versatility isn’t as apparent. Because the minutes for some of these other guys
Chris (48:32.498)
that probably shouldn’t be playing as many minutes as they’ve had to during this stretch, they go up. The usage rate for those guys may go up, and all that kind of stuff. And I just think every time he’s out of the lineup, there’s this domino effect that is felt maybe not immediately, but as the absence extends into days or weeks or into months, as was the case last year.
In saying all of that, like he’s got to be healthy. This has been a problem for Dean being available, being reliable, being consistent. All of that stuff has been a problem at various points throughout his, his basketball career. And I think the calves are going to have to think long and hard, and this is a separate conversation for a separate podcast.
But as we start to think forward and is this the year for the Cavs to go for it? Is this the year that the Cavs smell a little blood in the water in the Eastern Conference? Is there something that they’ve seen in the first two matchups against Boston behind the scenes within their own numbers that make them feel like a championship is a realistic possibility this year? If that’s the feeling.
And they’re kind of in go for it mode. Like, they really, really have to consider how much can we count on Dean? How much do we think he’s going to be available when April, May, and June roll around? Because history says that he hasn’t been available. In some of the most meaningful moments that the Cavs have needed him or needed a theoretical player like him. So again,
a conversation for a different podcast and another day. But as we’re exploring, the, the various strengths and the weaknesses of this particular roster and where they can potentially improve, to really, really compete with Boston and give this thing a real shot to get to the NBA finals. That may be the position ultimately that they’re going to have to look to upgrade because Dean.
Chris (50:57.362)
He’s got the health questions, right? His confidence waivers. We’ve seen that in the past in George and Yang. I don’t know. Like, I don’t know how much the calves would want to rely on him if they have to start asking him to do a little bit more or start asking him to be in a bigger role than, what he’s been in. So that to me, if there’s a position that the calves are looking at saying,
Hey, what does an upgrade look like? What’s the cost? What does it mean behind the scenes? That to me is the one that stands out as maybe the most important to fix ahead of the trade deadline or after the trade deadline in a potential buyout situation.
Ethan Sands (51:45.716)
And I wrote about that last year, Chris, like the best ability is availability, right? And Dean Wade is one of those guys and we’ve.
Chris (51:50.974)
Yeah.
How very cliche of you to say that.
Ethan Sands (51:57.012)
You know, I’ve been pretty cliche on this podcast. Sorry about it. no, no. No, I would say how I got to sleep better at night with Jared Allen on the floor if I did that. no. But with Dean being on the floor, we talked about it at an abundance on this podcast. Like the Cavs play at a different level. And as Chris said earlier, they’re playing winning basketball with him.
Chris (52:00.296)
Are you J.B. Bickerstaff now? Just using J.B. Bickerstaff-isms?
Ethan Sands (52:25.898)
They, he adds a different wrinkle. have a, a front court basically of guys at six foot 10 or six foot nine and a half and above. If that’s what you want to listen to that. So it’s a different dynamic that can counter different teams. look at how that goes up against Boston, Orlando magic, New York Knicks, all these different things. and we’ve talked a lot about stats on this podcast and I do want to, to make this very clear. Stats are finicky.
Man, like you got, like I said, the majority of the stats that I’ve given from tonight’s podcast have been on basketball reference. Then you go to NBA.com and you look at defensive rating, offensive rating, and this is just overall. right, 100%. And like,
Chris (52:56.842)
yeah.
Chris (53:03.956)
Mmm.
Chris (53:09.983)
sure, everyone’s got different tracking software.
Crabs have different tracking software too.
Ethan Sands (53:18.546)
Exactly, right. So like not everything is gonna be this like and that’s why we talk about how close and comparable the guys Dean Wade and Isaac Corral have been and To go into just the offensive rating list for the NBA comm list real quick Isaac Corral has one twenty two point eight and then Dean Wade who has one nineteen point six Then you look at defensive rating and this is how finicky some of the stats can be Sam Merrill is listed as number one
Chris (53:26.249)
Yeah.
Ethan Sands (53:48.182)
With 106.1 on the defensive end which we know isn’t his strong suit, but he’s he’s grown but that’s not it. So
Chris (53:55.912)
Man, he’s been good on defense. I got to give him a lot of credit. Like he had maybe the best defensive possession of his entire career. the other night against Jason, completely locked him up and forced an air ball. So I give Sam credit. He’s a smart defender. He’s a willing defender. He takes more charges than anybody else on this team. He’s kind of like the Kyle Lowry of the Cavs from that standpoint.
Ethan Sands (53:59.094)
Yeah, that’s been good.
Chris (54:23.636)
He’s not going to go up and contest shots because he understands his limitations. So he’s just going to get in the way. I give him credit for that.
Ethan Sands (54:31.668)
Yeah, a hundred percent. But that’s not what he’s known for is what I’m trying to say. Like, correct. And you wouldn’t think he’d be at the top of the Cavs defensive rating list through 21 games. But he all, then you look at the defensive rating and Dean Wade is at 106.8 and Isaac Okuro, who we know his defensive stats are a little bit different and have been weird throughout his career. He’s all the way down to 115.3, but
Chris (54:34.822)
No, no, it’s not what he’s known for. He’s out there playing threes.
Chris (54:42.032)
No. No. No.
Ethan Sands (55:01.502)
It’s definitely interesting to look at these different softwares and I advise if you’re gonna like go based on stats and you’re listening to the podcast, go look at them for yourself. Everybody has access, the basketball reference, NBA.com advanced stats, all these different things. So you can look and decipher for yourself based on what you think is best. But Chris, you mentioned something in your last little go at it about the minutes that could be taken.
Chris (55:15.071)
yeah!
Ethan Sands (55:29.728)
from George Yang, Sam Merrill. And that’s where I want to end this podcast. Cause we talked about Max Drew’s coming back potentially sometime. He’s got to come back at some point, Chris. We don’t want this to be a Ty Jerome situation or anything like that, right? Dean Wade’s going to come back relatively soon, perhaps. And Isaiah Corral is already on the court. So when you’re talking about Dean Wade and Max coming back, Dean’s going to take minutes to me from guys like George.
Chris (55:40.766)
Yeah.
Ethan Sands (55:59.296)
from guys like maybe Sam, depending on where they decide to put Sam on the court. Then you got Max going back, who will definitely take minutes from Sam and Ty Jerome. Who do you think gets the shortest end of the stick? And we’re not talking about Craig Porter Jr. and Jalen Tyson, who are already at the bottom of the rotation, but who gets their minutes kind of pushed down a little bit when these two guys come back the most?
Chris (56:06.024)
Mm-hmm.
Chris (56:28.2)
think the way that I look at it is similar to the way that Kenny Atkinson is going to look at it.
Who has the most comparable skill sets? Who has overlapping traits that we can replicate by just playing the other guy? So if there’s going to be a commitment to playing Max Struz Big Minutes, and there is. So who’s most similar to Max? Sam Merrill. Right? You just don’t have as much of a need for the things that Sam brings to the table.
because he’s almost a facsimile of Max. They’re not the same player. No two players are exactly alike. But what do you like about Max? What do you like about Sam?
It’s kind of the same stuff. Spacing, gravity, movement, cutting, willingness to compete on the defensive end, getting in the way on defense. They’re very, very similar players. They have the same aging. They work out together in the off season. It’s like the Spider-Man meme. They kind of really, really care about their hair.
You know what mean? So it’s like the Spider-Man meme. And then I think you can do the same thing when Dean comes back and you’re trying to make a case for him to get more minutes and you’re trying to create room for him to play. Like, he’s not more similar to George Niang than he is to Isaac Okoro.
Chris (58:12.702)
George is different than Isaac. George is different than Dean. And I think there’s a place for the things that George brings to the table. His catch and shoot ability. His understanding of the offense. His basketball IQ. Every now and then, every now and then, if a smaller defender switches onto him, he can kinda get his own with that little floater in the post or that little jump hook in the post.
post. We know the limitations that he has on the defense of another four. So to me, like Max and Sam are most comparable and the things that you like about Dean and Isaac are most comparable. So to me, the two that that are really in the most jeopardy are Isaac and Sam. And I think that’s how it was playing itself out at various points.
You know at the beginning of the season. It also kinda depends on where Kenny wants to play Dean. Is he going to play him at full time three? Or is he going to split his minutes between the three and the four? Because if he starts splitting his minutes between the three and the four and leaning on him as like a de facto power forward, then there’s less room for George. I mean it’s not a coincidence that
the low minute totals for George Niang coincided with Dean being available at the beginning of the season. And when Dean was out, and it also coincided with Karis being out and Max being out, his workload increased, his playing time increased, but I think it’s also going to be dependent on what does the matchup call for.
What kind of player do they need and in what situation are they in? Are they trailing? Are they leading? That’s going to go into it too. Because if you’re trailing, it’s probably not Isaac. Need a jolt of energy on the offensive end. You need somebody to loosen up the defense and make things easier on Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell, Jared Allen, Evan Mobley.
Chris (01:00:36.68)
You need somebody who’s going to hit threes, the great equalizer. That’s more Sam Merrill. That’s more George Niang. That’s probably a little bit more Dean Wade. But again, the Dean Isaac thing is very, very, very, very close that I’d probably call it a draw or a push on the offensive end. So I just think there are a lot of different factors that go into it. But I think initially when you ask that question.
Isaac and Sam come to mind more so than anybody else. I have a question for you though, before we wrap up the podcast. Why do you think it’s so difficult for people to accept that Dean Wade is a good basketball player?
Ethan Sands (01:01:13.546)
What’s up?
Ethan Sands (01:01:22.826)
because the question from a couple years ago was who’s Dean Wade, kind of the same way that we were asking the Boston Celtics guys, like who is the guy coming off the bench for them? Yeah, Drew Peterson, exactly. He did, and he did pretty well, 20 plus minutes again. but I, as somebody who came into this not knowing who Dean Wade or George Niang was last year,
Chris (01:01:33.108)
Drew Peterson. We played tonight, the way. Again.
Ethan Sands (01:01:50.554)
and seeing the offensive difference that George created, with the falling on his back and throwing his legs up into the air on defense.
Chris (01:02:02.036)
Poor guy. Like, how does that happen almost every single game to him? The same exact pose.
Ethan Sands (01:02:05.078)
You
It’s like he’s creating his own meme and he’s like, I don’t know if he knows he does it or whatever. Like he’s gotta see these pictures, right? Like the guys in the locker room’s gotta show him the pictures of him. Like, my goodness.
Chris (01:02:17.242)
yeah. yeah. But how is it that every single photographer captures that pose?
Ethan Sands (01:02:23.094)
You
Ethan Sands (01:02:27.2)
Man, I don’t know, it’s bad luck. It’s gotta be.
Chris (01:02:28.936)
Like, these photographers have a vendetta against George? And they’re like, we’re just going to cast him in this bad light. And we’re going to make sure that almost every single game, it’s this picture in that pose. Poor guy.
Ethan Sands (01:02:42.302)
Yeah, but poor guy. I mean, and I think I know like the traditional basketball fan is like, I watch defense. OK. It’s the NBA and fans are complaining about like the score and all these different things. Like people watch offense. And then when you’re watching the defensive end.
Chris (01:02:55.156)
HAHAHAHA
Ethan Sands (01:03:09.2)
Most people, if you’re just like a random fan of the game, you’re not like a diehard basketball fan, you’re watching the ball. And majority of the time, the things that Dean Wade does off the ball for as a defender are more impactful than he can do things on the ball. And he’s a great on-ball defender, but what he does as a helper, what he does on the opposing side of the ball, all these different things, like until I was watching the game with these lenses.
Chris (01:03:30.962)
No.
Ethan Sands (01:03:37.95)
Like I didn’t realize and I told you this last year I gave you your props because you you called dean way and I was asking about george neang and Look how that turned out but I I really do think when it comes to trying to figure out why dean way doesn’t get the same respect it’s because When you look at his box score at the end of the day, it’s not filled out as much right and there’s Right and there could be
Chris (01:03:59.41)
Yeah. Yeah, there’s almost nothing to it.
Ethan Sands (01:04:04.49)
There could be some missed shots. There could be why is he shooting 35 % this game and then you don’t watch the next game when you shoot 65 or all these different things. And there are a lot of people that just go to the box score at the end of the game and look at it and then they’ll read it and then they don’t get to the plus minus. They skip over it. They look at the points per game, all these different things. These are for casual fans. I’m not calling out the fans because I know people that are going to watch this or whoever gets to an hour plus on this. Thank you for listening and watching. like
I don’t think that the casual fan is actually paying attention to the impact that Dean Wade has had. And we both talked about it since the moment that I changed my mind about Dean Wade and George Niang is that Dean does things that you cannot, that don’t go into the box court. You can’t calculate them. You don’t expect him sometimes to do those things. And the amount of confidence that has been instilled in him
Chris (01:04:47.54)
Thanks.
Ethan Sands (01:05:03.926)
throughout his career. Like, George Neang is a guy, sorry, don’t know why I got stuck on George Neang and Dean Wade, but George is a veteran of the league. So people know him. People have seen him even if it’s more than they would have wanted to, they’ve seen him around the league for years. Dean Wade is kind of still getting his footing in Kansas State, all these different things. You talk about what he’s been able to do for his career, lot of people haven’t seen or noticed.
Or in the biggest games he’s hurt so there’s less things to go on when it comes to dean wade When it comes to dean wade and his success and what he’s been able to show to us people that watch the game with a different lens Than trying to keep up with where the ball is going on every play
Chris (01:05:51.048)
I gotcha. Come join me on Dean Wade Island. The drinks are chilly. The scenery is beautiful.
The water is blue. The sand is white. Come join me on Dean Wade Island.
Ethan Sands (01:06:08.886)
I’ve joined you already. Yeah.
Chris (01:06:11.784)
I need Cavs Nation to join me on Dean Wade Island. I can be the mayor.
Ethan Sands (01:06:19.958)
What you drinking on Dean Wade Island, Chris? Just drink of choice.
Chris (01:06:22.628)
man, so there’s this drink. I don’t know if this is the right name for it, but there was this drink that someone was sipping on when Holly and I were honeymooning. Our first honeymoon got hurricane-ed out. We were scheduled to go to Antigua and the hurricane hit the day that we were going to land and we were tracking our plane from afar.
And our plane landed, the flight that we were supposed to land in Antigua, it landed for the sole purpose to take people off the island.
That’s how bad it was. It was like the biggest hurricane in Antigua in 30 years. And it hit the day that we were supposed to start our honeymoon. So we had to pivot and we went to Mexico for our first honeymoon. And then a year later we did the Antigua thing. But when we were in Mexico, we met this couple and we spent a lot of time with them and…
She was drinking this fruity drink that was red and white. And I was like, hey, what’s that? And it’s half strawberry daiquiri, half pina colada. And what we were calling it when we were ordering and what they knew it as in Mexico when we were at the resort was a Miami vice. Again, I don’t know if that’s the name of it. I don’t know if that was just made up. I don’t know if that’s just for Mexico, but.
I call it a Miami Vice because that’s how I ordered it when I was in Mexico. And if you’re coming to Dean Wade Island, there is going to be a whole bunch of Miami Vice being served there. It is one of the most delicious drinks that I’ve ever had in my entire life. Like, I love my sparkling water. Everybody knows that I love my sparkling water. Everybody knows that I love Coke Zero. Miami Vice, it’s kind of like
Chris (01:08:31.484)
trying to build an MVP ballot. You can only fit so many things on there, but I’m gonna make room for Miami Vice.
Ethan Sands (01:08:42.608)
I will tell you that that is what it’s called. I did. It is what it’s called. Yeah. Good on you. Well, I don’t know if it’s in the United States. I just looked up Miami Vice cocktail and that’s the image that you described is exactly what came up. So.
Chris (01:08:45.66)
It is? Okay, okay. In the United States?
okay.
Chris (01:08:56.092)
Yeah, dude, so good. And I don’t care what people say about fruity drinks. I don’t care. I don’t care. They are delicious. Like I don’t need to be overly manly and say, yeah, 10.9 alcohol by volume. Like, no, I’m done with all that. I’ve moved past that. I’m a dad now. I can just enjoy the drink for its taste.
Ethan Sands (01:09:01.792)
Fruity drinks? I knew you were gonna say this.
Chris (01:09:23.612)
I’m comfortable in my own skin to say that I would rather have a Miami vice than some fancy ass bourbon that somebody else would order or like an old fashioned or Christmas ale or something along those lines. Give me a Miami vice because like if you honestly drink like all of those things in a row and you don’t think a Miami vice is more refreshing than bourbon that just like burns you.
As you swallow it, you got something wrong with your taste buds. That’s all there is to it.
Ethan Sands (01:10:00.547)
my God. Okay. Well, I don’t know why.
Chris (01:10:02.94)
I did my first sip of bourbon, Ethan, about two years ago or something like that because my buddy raves about it and he’s like, I stood in line for three hours for this special bourbon from some brand from Kentucky or something like that. And he gave me a sip and I’m like, it burns my mouth. Like it burns my throat. It burns my chest. How is this enjoyable? Yeah, cool. Let’s drink fire. No.
Ethan Sands (01:10:31.286)
That’s like when people are trying to tell you to drink Everclear. I’m like, there’s something literally wrong with you. no, I don’t know why. But when you said there was a drink, Pina Colada definitely did come to mind. So that’s definitely interesting that you said that that would be your drink of choice. But.
Chris (01:10:37.364)
Yeah.
Chris (01:10:46.74)
I I look like a pina colada guy and I’m okay with that.
Ethan Sands (01:10:52.764)
I didn’t say that, but…
Chris (01:10:55.942)
I sip it proudly. I have no problem with it.
Ethan Sands (01:10:57.366)
I, yeah. Don’t let the calves hear that you don’t want to drink their Christmas ale. They might get upset with you. But, all right. You’ve gotten everything you might’ve wanted, you could’ve wanted, and maybe stuff that you didn’t want to hear on this podcast. We got into what Dean Wade’s status is. We got into what Max Drew’s status is. We talked about the ins and outs of what makes Max Dean and Isaac Okoro so integral to this team.
And then we talked about who might get their minutes a little bit lowered when they come back and how those could impact the rotations in the roster when it comes to the Cleveland Cavaliers. But we… And especially that…
Chris (01:11:40.756)
Dean Wade Island, Gibson Glock. Morning, afternoon, and night. Let’s go.
Ethan Sands (01:11:48.202)
Especially after listening to this podcast. For listeners that want to contribute to a survey about the pod where you can give your feedback, go to https://tinyurl.com/WGPod. That’s https://tinyurl.com/WGPod. With that being said, that’ll wrap up.
Chris (01:12:10.12)
Jet Ski Rentals for free!
Chris (01:12:15.378)
Skuba lessons.
It’s all available on Dean Wade Island. Lockdown Defense.
Ethan Sands (01:12:20.95)
Lockdown defense for sure that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the wine and gold talk podcast But remember to become a Cavs insider and interact with Chris me and Jimmy by subscribing to subtext Chris mentioned earlier He gave the status report on Dean way to subtexters before anybody else had it Twitter X Facebook Instagram, whatever you want to name it subtexters get this information first
And obviously our next podcast will be after the Washington Wizards game and on Tuesday, but the following podcast will be our Hey Chris episode. So you can send in your questions directly to our phone and we can send you responses or you could get a shout out on the podcast by leaving your state name and all that good information. But to do so, you have to sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.com/cavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine. All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy, but we can tell you that the people who sign up stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the calves from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast, it’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’all be safe. We out.