Is Ty Jerome the early favorite to be the backup point guard for the Cavs this season? Wine and Gold Talk podcast

Takeaways:

• The Cavs are focusing on a fast-paced style in training camp.
• Kenny Atkinson is learning to manage player expectations and roles.
• Ty Jerome is eager to prove himself after a missing 92 total games last season (including the playoffs).
• Kenny Atkinson values depth, but the guard rotation presents challenges for the coaching staff.
• Jaylon Tyson is impressing with his versatility and work ethic.

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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Ethan Sands

What up Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. I’m back with my guy, Chris Fedor, cleveland.com beat reporter. Chris, you’re living it up. You look like you’re getting a tan. How’s Florida treating you?

Chris Fedor

It’s great, man. It takes a lot to get me a tan. but you know, the sunshine and the hot weather and as much as I want to be outside and walk around and explore the city, it’s a new city that I don’t get to visit very often. And I’m probably not going to visit for, unless my wife wants to come here or something like that, or unless my dad wants to come here or something, there is no NBA team in Sarasota. So unless the calves continue to have training camp at IMG Academy or my wife ultimately wants to

go down to Sarasota or we retire here or something like that. I’m probably not going to be back here. So I’m trying to take advantage of that as much as I possibly can see as many things as I can and be outside and explore the city as much as I can. And I’m glad that it’s, it’s a tan because I did not, one of the things that I did not pack Ethan, I forgot to pack it with sunscreen and I’ve got this fair iris skin and I don’t usually tan. just burn.

But for some reason, this Florida sun is good to my skin. And knock on everything, despite being outside constantly, I haven’t gotten any crispier than I was. It’s a nice tan, and that’s what I was hoping for when I came here.

Ethan Sands (01:46.233)

Next time you are at IMG Academy, could be to send Elliot there? Potentially?

Chris (01:52.994)

Not for those prices. I can understand why it’s as pricey as it is and people love it and they have everything that you could want and more from a facility. But that’s a little bit out of my price range. I’m gonna have to, you know, start saving up 20 years ago in order to send Elliot to IMG. I need a time machine at this point in time.

Ethan Sands (02:21.149)

Well, the Cavs are not going backwards. They’re planning on moving forward. And that is what they’re doing with day two, right? We talked a little bit about what went on in day one, the defensive minded day one that Kenny Atkinson instilled in the guys to remind them of what their identity was, who they are, what they’re good at. But now in day two, it was said that they got out in transition. They got to do some scrimmaging. They got to go some

running around the court, seeing what they’re good at and seeing what they can do against each other. Right, Chris? It was kind of a different aspect where the guys that are going to be fighting for the same spots in the rotation that Kenny Atkinson said is probably going to be around 10, maybe 11, depending on matchups. And it’s like, okay, I’m coming for your spot. You’re coming from mine. Let’s show each other what we got. And I think that’s the best way of competition. You can do it, Chris. And

Kenny Agonson talked a little bit about how it ended with Isaac Okoro hitting a three pointer from the corner, something we want to see more of, especially in the playoffs from Isaac Okoro. But what was the vibe that you got of a more fun day, a more get out and go do it day from this Cavs team?

Chris (03:39.246)

So I talked to a bunch of people after practice, coaches, execs, players. I mean, I asked them to describe the vibe, describe the energy, describe what day two at training camp was like. And the word that came up most frequently was fast. And then I asked a couple of players who stood out to them. We asked some of the guys that met with us during the media session.

But I asked other guys on the side as well because I was kind of curious. And the two names that continue to come up, there are actually three names that came up and nobody’s going to say Donovan Mitchell. It just doesn’t work that way, right? And nobody’s going to say Evan Mobley. They’re members of the core four. So usually it’s kind of like the beyond the top guys who are those standouts and the three names that I heard the most today. Isaac Kikoro, Ty Jerome,

and Jaylen Tyson. And it’s going to be interesting to me to see how Kenny Atkinson is going to figure all of this out. And he talked today about one of the things that he learned in his time with Golden State is that Steve Kerr was a master in terms of delivering the news to players in a way that was going to be received well about what their role was, about what their playing time was going to be.

And even if they weren’t going to be in the immediate rotation, stay ready because he could go to them at any moment during the regular season. It’s an 82 game grind. So Kenny Atkinson said that he learned a lot watching Steve Kerr do that and manage the personalities and manage the egos. And he feels like he’s going to have to do that here when it comes to the Cavs, because as Kenny Atkinson said, Ethan.

There are like 13 or 14 guys that are NBA caliber players on this roster that probably think they should be getting some kind of playing time. And you can’t play everybody. As Kenny Atkinson said, it’s not FIBA. There’s a different culture in the NBA and playing a guy four minutes, really, really hard minutes where he just goes after it for those four minutes. It’s not going to fly in the NBA. Players aren’t going to be satisfied.

Chris (05:57.826)

with those four minutes. They’re going to be griping because those four minutes aren’t eight minutes or 12 minutes or 16 minutes. So it’s a delicate situation. It always is when it comes to playing time and managing personalities and egos and figuring out your rotation. And to me, it’s the first real conundrum that Kenny Atkinson is going to have to figure out and how he delivers it.

and how he gets the guys to understand it and receive that news is going to be really, really important. It’s a good problem to have. Kenny even has talked about that. He loves the fact that they have this depth. He’s going to lean into that. It’s going to be a strength of this team. but it also means that he’s got to make difficult decisions.

Ethan Sands (06:46.269)

I mean, yeah, Chris, you touched on it perfectly, right? Like fans wondering why they’re not going past 10, 11 guys, if all these players seem deserving. It’s hard to give somebody like five minutes and be like, well, that’s it. That’s what you’re gonna get. Make the most of that. And then we go back to last season where we saw guys have short leases. We saw guys get opportunities, but then be brought back to the bench whenever the situation may have called for. And when it was an offensive matchup, defensive matchup.

depending on the player and that didn’t help the confidence of those guys. That didn’t help the opportunities that they got because it’s like, okay, well I got this small sample size and now I’m getting criticized for because I’ve only been on the court eight minutes a game, whatever. I can’t get substantial reps in those positions. So now it’s kind of figuring out for Kenny Atkinson when to make those moves, when to make those calls. And I’m glad you brought up Ty Jerome because

He’s the most interesting person of the camp to me because he hasn’t played since two games into the regular season of last year. And obviously, like you said, you want to touch on Evan Mobley and what he’s going to bring after his off season of work and Isaac Acora with the shooting and all those different things. But Ty Jerome is playing with this team and is probably considered almost the same amount of a non, like not an outsider, but somebody that hasn’t been with this core group of guys.

As long as Jalen Tyson has two games, it might not consist to being with them and having to go to different facilities to get surgery and all those different things. So I know you talked to Ty Jerome at media day. How excited is he just to be back on the court, but also to prove himself and see if he can earn some minutes as well.

Chris (08:35.534)

I mean, his excitement is really, really high. His confidence has not wavered. He was talking a lot of trash today, from what I understand. He’s that kind of guy. And look, this is a guy who sat out almost an entire year last year, Ethan. So there’s something pent up inside of him. And I do think that it’s coming out here at training camp because the term that was used to describe Ty to me earlier today.

Was feisty. He was getting after it. He was competing. He was feisty. and I think that’s to be expected when you’re trying to make up for so much lost time and you’re just, he, he talked about it at media day, just how difficult it was, for him to be robbed of basketball. That’s, that’s the thing that he has known the most and the best since he was like eight years old. And if you think about it from Ty’s perspective and him and I talked about this a few different times throughout the course of

of the season when he would appear in the locker room and stuff like that. Or when I was on the road and he was on one of the road trips, you know, jumping on one leg, shooting one legged jumpers because he just craved basketball. for him, this was a new environment. This was a new situation. He wasn’t familiar with Cleveland. He wasn’t familiar with his teammates.

He wasn’t familiar with the coaching staff. He was trying to get all of those things. and he got robbed of those opportunities and so much of his time was about rehabbing and injury being in the weight room, being at medical centers and all those different things. And if he would have had like an established foundation here in Cleveland, then maybe it would have been different for him.

Like he would have had other things that he could have done outside of basketball. He could have had other spots that he could have gone to and felt comfortable outside of basketball. And I just think it was really, really lonely for him because, you know, the thing that was going to bring him the most joy and occupy his time the most was taken away from him. And he told me at media day,

Chris (10:56.02)

One of the people in his life that helped him get through it the best was his younger brother who is in college. They talked basically every single day. And yeah, Ty formed relationships with Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland and some of these other guys on the Cavs. But it just wasn’t to the level where if he would have spent two, three years, four years or something like that in Cleveland, it probably would have made, it still would have sucked for him, but it would have made

that whole process, a little bit easier on Ty. And I’m planning to sit down with him at some point in the next couple of days, before I leave Florida and just dig into like everything that he went through in detail, over the last year to get him back to this point where, he’s out there on the court and he’s doing some positive things and he’s talking some trash.

And he’s making plays and he’s knocking down shots. You know, I know it’s just training camp, but I know it’s just against no defender whatsoever, but that dude can shoot the bleep out of the bowl. Like there are shooting competitions that he is having after practice with Sam Merrill. And we all know the kind of shooter that Sam Merrill is. And Ty Jerome’s out there holding his own and winning some of those.

Ethan Sands (12:19.877)

Yeah. And Ty is one of those guys that, mean, like you mentioned, Chris, who was on his first year of a new contract and a new city and a new environment. And now it’s like, okay, I got some of the similar guys around me, but it’s a brand new coaching staff basically with new guys and new system. Maybe it’s potentially going to help him that he didn’t really get into JB Bickers staff system. He’s learning this new Kenny Atkins system kind of fresh. But I mean,

As a guy who likes to talk crap on whatever, like sporting contests it might be, I know how it can be when you’re just like sitting there playing, like he might’ve been playing video games, letting out pent-out aggression, like just talking smack on the headset or whatever, because this is like, it’s their job, it’s their livelihood. It’s what they do, like not only because it’s something that they love, but it pays their bills too.

And the other thing about Ty Jerome, because we’re talking about contracts and stuff like that from this past summer, I believe Ty Jerome was on a two-year contract, which means that this is the last year of that deal. So he’s not only trying to prove himself to be able to be in this rotation, but that he should be here for the run that the Cavs hope to be on for the next couple of seasons. And obviously we know he’s a bigger guard. He’s someone that could potentially alleviate

of the issue that Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell have in the back court of being too small or whatever it may be. I don’t know how good he is on defense, but Chris, I’m trying to figure out where does Ty Jerome fit into Kenny Atkinson’s rotation? And is he going to fight for a spot? Is he one of those 12, 13, 14 guys that is putting up a fight to be in a rotational position?

Chris (14:12.14)

Short answer is yes. beyond the fact that he has experience with Kenny Atkinson, they spent one year together in Golden State when Ty was there on a two way contract. the other people inside this organization have had their eyes on Ty Jerome and they have attempted to sign him for multiple years before he even got here. mean, Kobe Altman has been watching Ty Jerome and appreciating his game.

since before Kobe even got into this role that he is in as president of the basketball operations, the Cavs tried to draft Ty Jerome, back in 2019, when he came into the NBA, he went two picks in front of them. So like this guy has been on the Cavs basketball radar for half a decade now. And the appreciation for his game.

and the belief in him as a player and how he could fit in this organization, that hasn’t changed just because he basically had his lower leg rebuilt. Right? That hasn’t changed just because he only played a game and a half with the Cavs. Now look, there’s a numbers game involved here. I think we all understand that. Kenny Atkinson even said today, like 11 is pushing it. 11 is going to be tough. He’s like, I know

He essentially said, I know that I said 11 at one point, but I’m most comfortable with 10. Like that doesn’t mean that he won’t extend it to 11, but he said, I’m most comfortable with 10, just like JB Bickerstaff was most comfortable with eight, nine. Mike D’Antoni in the past was most comfortable with eight. Every coach has their own comfort zone when it comes to a rotation. And it doesn’t mean one guy’s right and the other guy’s wrong. It doesn’t mean that.

One works and the other one doesn’t right? It’s just about a comfort zone with how you allocate those minutes and kenny said it today that he’s most comfortable with 10 to me For ty gerome to consistently play I think it means kenny has to extend it to 11. I think it means that kenny has to look We’ve talked about this a few different times ethan They’re going to stagger jared allen and evan mobley and evan mobley

Chris (16:33.986)

while being the starting power forward is also going to be viewed as the backup center. I believe they’re probably going to stagger Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell as well. And Kenny Atkinson could very easily look at Donovan Mitchell as his backup point guard. But if Kenny, a former point guard himself, sees value in tie and his ability to orchestrate offense,

get the Cavs into good plays, push the pace, beyond the shooting, beyond the spacing, beyond the versatility and the size that he brings. If he just feels like he needs a more quote unquote natural point guard to run some things, including the second unit, as opposed to giving those ball handling responsibilities to Karas or giving them to Donovan, like I said, then I think there’s a pathway for Ty to be the quote unquote

backup point guard on this team. But the guard spot is one of the most loaded that the Cavs have. And it was the same issue that the Cavs ran into last year, Ethan, when it came to trying to get Sam Merrill minutes. There’s only so many minutes to go around when you have other guys in front of you on the deck chart. And there are 96 total minutes available at the guard spot.

How do you divvy those up?

Ethan Sands (17:58.557)

I think it’s really hard. It’s really hard because everybody’s playing to their peak performance early on in the season. And that comes back to the health of this team, right? There were a lot of players that ended last season on the injured list or didn’t have the opportunity to showcase themselves in the playoffs. And many of them had to take significant time off this summer to recalibrate, recuperate, and get back to their old selves. Two of those that

I know we wanted to talk about a little bit. Dean Wade had to wait off two months until his knee injury that he came back could have been considered too soon for the last three playoff games in Boston. And the Cavs needed him to come back. He worked for two months to get himself to come back in that series. And he still was only to play three games and on one leg, basically. And Dean Wade played…

Chris (18:33.902)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (18:55.281)

Took two months off this off season and got back to himself. The injury that surprised me the most to take the most time is Caris Levert. Someone who didn’t play in the last game of the playoffs against the Celtics and had to wait until two to three weeks ago, he said, until he felt like himself. that coming into training camp is one, not something you…

Chris (19:05.454)

Hmm.

Ethan Sands (19:22.117)

necessarily want to hear from a coaching perspective, but two, it’s like, all right, so what were you able to do this off season to feel like you’re getting yourself ready, especially for Caris LaVert, who we consider to be in a contract year or even an unmovable piece for this team going down the line.

Chris (19:41.772)

Yeah. And here’s the thing too. You bring up Karas. So that’s part of the equation at the guard spot, right? Like here are all the names that could theoretically be battling for minutes at the guard spot. And some of this depends on how does Kenny Atkinson look at Isaac Okoro? Does he look at him as a three slash four or a two slash three? How does he look at Max Struz? Does he see him primarily as a three? Does he want to play him at some two?

Kenny downsize and play him at the four. So that’s the thing that, that Kenny will have to figure out. But these are all the names that are battling for minutes at the guard spot. Obviously Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell. They have a solidified role. They’re going to get somewhere between 34 and 38 minutes a night. Then you talk about Karis Levert, Sam Merrill,

Craig Porter Jr., but I think he’s behind Ty Jerome and I think he’s just not really in immediate consideration for the rotation. Even if they go to 11, I think they would go with Ty before they would go with Craig. That’s just my feeling on the situation. So Darius Donovan, Caris, Sam Merrill, Max Struce potentially, Isaac Okoro potentially, Jaylen Tyson potentially, Ty Jerome and Craig Porter Jr.

Like…

You can’t play all those guys. Are they going to go with Ty at the expense of Sam Merrill? Are they going to go with Ty and force Isaac Okoro to be the 3 slash 4 in certain lineups as opposed to a 2 slash 3? All those things Kenny’s going to have to figure out. But my point is all of those guys are considered playable NBA players. All of those guys could be

Chris (21:38.784)

in a rotation across the NBA. They’re not all going to be able to play. It’s just, it’s just too much. And for Ty Jerome, like I guess he can play shooting guard in some lineups. So that helps him a little bit more. That level of versatility, that level of size that he has, it probably gives him a slight edge over somebody like Craig Porter Jr. Who is a one position player.

Ty’s ability to be a two position player could certainly help him.

Ethan Sands (22:12.943)

And one player that you mentioned that I did want to touch on before we wrap this up, Jaylen Tyson, right? I wrote an article a couple of days ago about how he thought, or he said that he’s one of the best rookies in this class, right? And that was at media day. That was on Monday, right? A couple of days later, he’s now showing that to all of the players that is on this roster, right? Chris, you wrote an article today about how

three different people talked either to the media, to you or whatever, and said that the person that they were most surprised with, were most impressed with in the first two days of training camp or all of the workouts they did beforehand was Jalen Tyson in his rookie season. And I know we don’t want to put expectations that after Craig Porter Jr. had the rookie season that he had, do you want to have those expectations for Jalen Tyson? Probably not, but

Chris (22:57.421)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (23:10.887)

Jaylen Tyson is coming out the gate and is doing the things that are necessary. Playing the game the right way, being able to just plug in on multiple positions. And I think, like you said with Ty Jerome, that’s what makes him interesting is he could potentially play from the one to the three and fill in in gaps where the Cavs might need him. And also that’s just opening up offensive strategies for Kenny. Hey, Jaylen, you want to bring up the ball on this possession? That’s fine. But on the next one, you’re going to set a pin down for somebody else to come up.

whatever, like it’s just different situations that Jalen is putting himself in early on with the Cavs that look like he could make a difference for this team. Chris, what did you hear around just the Cavs organization and also the players from today?

Chris (23:57.07)

The thing that stands out to me, Ethan, just in the comments made by Max Struess and Caris LaVert and Evan Mobley and even Kenny Atkinson, nobody, nobody has talked about Jalen Tyson the score. And I think that’s a positive sign for somebody like Jalen, because that’s not going to be his primary role here. Right? He’s going to have to do some other things and carve out an early career role.

That’s not high usage. That’s not high volume. That’s not score first. You know, at Cal, he was asked to do everything for that team because that’s what they needed. And a big part of that was scoring, right? But on this team, as a rookie drafted 20th overall, you’re not coming here to take the most shots, right? You’re not coming here to have the highest usage. You’re not coming here to score the most points.

Can you impact the game? Can you find a way to contribute to winning in a different kind of way? And Max Struess talked about Jaylen Tyson’s defense. Like what? There was a knock on him coming out of Cal. Evan Mobley talked about Jaylen Tyson’s ability to cut and play without the ball in his hands, which is a big, big important step for somebody like Jaylen Tyson.

Because how much is he going to have the ball in his hands? At summer league, was a ton. Here on the Cavs? No. So can you play off the ball? Can you cut? Can you defend your position? Can you crash the glass and get offensive rebounds? Can you finish defensive possessions with rebounds and then push the pace? Can you knock down, stand still, catch and shoot corner threes? Like those kinds of things are going to determine

just how much of a role Jalen has early in his career and whether there is going to be room for him in the rotation. And I think it’s a very, very promising sign that everybody that has raved about Jalen has talked about the other aspects of his game other than just his scoring, because I think that’s going to benefit him greatly. And I think that’s going to allow him to find his way on the court early in his career.

Ethan Sands (26:22.397)

Chris, that reminds me of when we were putting together our draft prospects for the Cavs, for the number 20 overall. And Jalen Tyson was the last person on my list. He was somebody that I actually switched in last minute. I remember we were texting and I had to put him into my list because I thought he was a better fit. But it was because I was like, he scores so many points. He’s so important to the game for their team that, for the Cal’s team that

Chris (26:28.206)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (26:51.961)

Is he going to be able to translate to a team that doesn’t need him to do all of that? And then I watched more film on him at Cal. I watched him create. I watched him rebound. I watched him drive to the basket and kick. I watched him do all of these different things that made it so he became my last person on my list to the most prominent or most possible pick for this team. And I think when Jalen Tyson came in, you talk about the defense, right? He said,

Chris (26:56.215)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (27:21.393)

that he knew it was a knock on him that he wasn’t a great defender in college. But his goal, his first goal that he said to us was that he wanted to be on making all defensive team in his rookie season. everybody was like, I was like, huh, what? That’s crazy. And then I brought, and then we were talking at media day and I brought it up. was going through the list of his goals for this season and

Chris (27:33.825)

In line.

Chris (27:37.709)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (27:48.527)

I added in, was like, you’re still going for that all defensive team? And he was like, yo, you know what? Yeah, yeah, I am. And I’m glad you reminded me because I tell coach that he’ll like that. He’ll like that. like, I was like, I’m not talking to coach about you trying to make all defensive team, but like that’s good that that is still actually on your radar because he said he wanted to crack the start and he wanted to crack the rotation, earn valuable minutes, and then just

do his thing, right? And I think that is something that is really important for this team and for him and what he’s going to be able to bring because this is a loaded roster with so much depth. And as I got to say it, cause Jimmy’s not here, Kenny Atkinson wants to cherish and celebrate the depth of this lineup. So I just think it’s really interesting to see what Jaylen Tyson has already done and what he’ll be able to continue to do in the beginning of his, in the beginning of training camp.

Chris (28:20.462)

Mm-hmm.

Chris (28:47.764)

Mm-hmm. It also, you know, we’ve talked about how versatility is something that’s important, especially in Kenny’s system. But, you know, being able to play multiple positions, I think the four, I don’t know. I don’t want to rule it out, right? Caleb Martin at times starts at the four. Jalen Tyson reminds me a lot of Caleb Martin. Josh Hart plays everywhere but center maybe for the Knicks. You know what mean? He’s not the tallest dude in the world.

So if you have that dog in you, if you have that competitiveness, if you have that strength and the toughness and stuff like that, and Jaylen Tyson has all of that, I don’t want to rule it out. So I think, you know, depending on the matchup, depending on the lineups and the other players that are out there on the court, him being a potential three position player is going to be really, really beneficial for him. And I think it’s another reason why there are people

around this organization, including players that are saying, well, maybe, maybe he could get in the rotation early on. think ultimately he ends up getting squeezed initially, but, but I think he’s the kind of guy that, as his coach, his Cal coach, Mark Madsen, told Kenny Atkinson and the Cavs, both before and after the Cavs drafted him.

You’re going to have a hard time keeping him off the floor. He’s somebody who you’re going to want on the floor in a number of different situations because winning just follows him.

Ethan Sands (30:25.807)

And like Kenny kind of followed that up with, he seems like he’s a guy that’s going to find a way. And I think that was the one quote that really stood out to me from Kenny about Jalen Tyson is that if he’s going to fight for it, he’s going to find a way. You can’t keep him off if he’s going to earn his spot and he’s going to earn his time.

Chris (30:32.12)

Mm-hmm.

Chris (30:45.932)

Yeah. And it’s funny because I talked to him at summer league, Ethan, and he said back when he was younger in his high school days, the only thing that he could do was shoot. Like that’s it. so if he can tap back into that shooting prowess and be a guy who can knock down the corner three, that is certainly something that the Cavs could use on this roster.

Ethan Sands (31:10.043)

I remember you saying that in summer league and I was like, all right, so this guy says he was a shooter. Then I watched all his film. He’s a driver and he says he’s going to be an all defensive player. I was like, so we’re just getting polar opposites right now. It’s going to be great. It’s going to be somebody that you got to keep an eye on. And I feel like, like Chris said earlier and like Kenny, Kenny Atkinson has said, it’s a good thing that this is going to be a difficult decision, but it’s up to Kenny Atkinson and his staff.

Chris (31:22.54)

Thank

Chris (31:34.68)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (31:37.137)

to figure out what the best option is for each night, each matchup, and it could change from a night in the night basis. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. But remember to become a CAS Insider and interact with Chris and me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. This is where you can send all your questions throughout the week or interact with us when we give you live updates of what’s going on in Florida.

Chris (31:43.554)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (32:06.651)

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