CLEVELAND, Ohio — Baldwin Wallace University surveyed 877 registered voters across Ohio, from Sept. 30 to Oct. 1, asking about the issues weighing their minds going into the presidential election. Ohioans don’t like gerrymandering, or most politicians.
We’re talking about the results — including attitudes on gun control, transgender rights and teaching about racism in schools — on Today in Ohio.
Editor Chris Quinn hosts our daily half-hour news podcast, with editorial board member Lisa Garvin, impact editor Leila Atassi and content director Laura Johnston.
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Here’s what else we’re asking about today:
Baldwin Wallace University this morning released a wide-ranging poll about Ohio attitudes, and we have a lot to talk about. With Issue 1 looming on the ballot to finally rid this state of gerrymandering, let’s talk about the attitude of Ohioans on that topic.
Before we move on to other topics, the League of Women Voters has released a study on redistricting. What did it find?
Back to the Baldwin Wallace survey. Let’s talk about what Ohioans think of their elected leaders, from Joe Biden on down the ranks.
Remember the phony furor over critical race theory a couple of years back? What’s the surprising survey finding about Ohioans and teaching about race and racism in public schools?
The Ohio Legislature has done everything possible to put guns into the hands of as many people as possible. What did the Baldwin Wallace Survey find about Ohioans’ attitudes about guns?
Ohioans are much less liberal in their thinking when it comes to transgender issues. What did the survey find about that?
We could do an entire episode on the survey, but we have some other topics worthy of discussion. We talk often in this country about the separation of church and state, so this next story is interesting. Could Ohio be the first state in the nation to spend our tax dollars to build religious schools?
Vice presidential candidates JD Vance and Tim Walz agree that a shortage of affordable childcare is straining American families, but they are not exactly aligned. How do they differ?
Ohio expanded its sales tax holiday over the summer, to give shoppers more options. Did they take advantage of it?
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Read the automated transcript below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it contains many errors and misspellings.
Chris Quinn (00:00.99)
We love working with the folks at Baldwin Wallace University and when they do a Ohio survey of attitudes, we want to be all over it. That’s what we’re going to be talking about a lot on Today in Ohio, the news podcast discussion from cleveham.com and the Plain Dealer. I’m Chris Quinn here with Lisa Garvin, Laura Johnston and back from two weeks in Italy, Courtney Astolfi. She has been eating really good food for the past two weeks.
Courtney (00:30.019)
Hehehe.
Chris Quinn (00:30.74)
Let’s start Baldwin Wallace University this morning released a wide ranging poll about Ohio attitudes and we have much to discuss with issue one looming on the ballot to finally rid this state of gerrymandering. Let’s talk Lisa about the attitude of Ohioans on that topic.
Lisa (00:49.258)
Yeah, there were two questions on this survey that was answered by over 900 registered Ohio voters. The first question is, are you familiar with the issue of gerrymandering? Well, and we break it down by several demographics. So the most was very familiar. That was the highest option to choose. As for being very familiar, Democrats were mostly very familiar. 33.7 % of Democrats as opposed to 25.6 Republicans.
gender, men were more very familiar, 37 to 20.6 female, women were more not at all familiar with gerrymandering, 13.2 to 15.4 males. In urbanicity, so we’re rating the suburbs versus rural and urban, suburbs were very familiar at the top, at 30.2.
Rural was 27.5 and urban was actually the lowest at 26.8%. And rural though has the highest, not at all familiar at 12.1. Ideology, this is not surprising. 44.7 % of liberals were very familiar versus moderates 24.2 and conservatives 27.7. The second question, do you support or oppose
Jerrymandering. Overall almost 69 % of people somewhat or strongly oppose Jerrymandering. It’s about even among men and women, those with and without a degree, although there’s a 13 point difference between 18 to 49 and 50 plus. More people in the 50 plus were opposed to Jerrymandering. Party ID, 74.4 % Democrats somewhat or strongly oppose it.
Lisa (02:54.858)
the GOP 66.5, which is higher than I thought, and independent 67.4 somewhat or strongly oppose.
Chris Quinn (03:04.468)
This is why I don’t think the lies that Frank Larrose and his teams are telling are going to work. think Ohioans are very familiar with this. They thought a decade ago when they voted 70 percent plus to try and fix it, that it was fixed. And it turned out the legislature played sleazy. They put something on the ballot that they planned to cheat on. And then when the census came around, they cheated. Supreme Court told them seven times you’re violating the Constitution and they kept doing it.
Ohioans are sick of it. And I don’t think all of the sleazy tactics that the Republican leaders are using, up to and including Mike DeWine, are going to work. think issue one is going to pass. It’s going to pass big. And we will finally end this problem in Ohio, get rid of these clowns and bring balance to the legislature. This poll backs up what we have long thought this is going to win going away.
Lisa (04:00.906)
And I wanted to look at people who either strongly or somewhat supported gerrymandering. the strongly supported, oddly enough, blacks were the highest at 5.3%, strongly supporting gerrymandering. Conservatives right behind them at 4.3%. The highest somewhat supporting of gerrymandering, those with a degree, 13.9%.
The something else race or ethnicity category 12.5 and then conservatives and angelicals were 12.1 % a piece strongly supporting it.
Chris Quinn (04:33.226)
I wonder if they understood what they were saying. I wonder if those folks understood Jerry Manning. I’m not surprised that the rural areas are completely unaware of it because Fox News is the only news source out there. That’s what they watch. And Fox News tells them lies about this stuff all the time. So it’s not surprising they’re uninformed. It has mostly to do with the dearth of local media.
Lisa (04:36.468)
Yeah.
Laura (04:56.55)
I think the issue with the Black Ohioans is this idea, and we talked about it when we talked about the Michigan redistricting plan, that they’re afraid that if they change the boundaries, they won’t have predominantly Black districts anymore, and they will have fewer Black representatives. That’s a fear. I don’t know that it would come true, but it’s out there.
Lisa (05:09.002)
Mmm.
Chris Quinn (05:19.05)
You’re listening to Today in Ohio. Before we move on to other survey topics, the Legal Women Voters has released a study on redistricting and gerrymandering. Courtney, what did it find?
Courtney (05:28.566)
Yeah, so we know the league’s one of the prominent backers of issue one. They’re looking for reforms here. And then in this study that they released really kind of made the case for why issue one ought to pass if you kind of read between the lines, because this report really concludes that gerrymandering has created significant political divisions in Ohio and it’s created significant disadvantages, especially for marginalized communities whose voting power has been diluted under the current system.
So this report, you know, it looks at a variety of consequences of the current system and citing University of Cincinnati, Professor David Niven, who’s a former aide to Governor Strickland and some other thinkers. It really talks about how the current system has harmed some voters. And one of those examples is Ohio’s black communities, which are often under the current protocols, you know, spliced in two and their voting power is diminished as a result of this.
But it also looked at how, you know, communities, geographical communities are split in two. So it looked at one district line in Massillon where homes on one street are in one district and they’re completely surrounded by homes that are in another district. So neighborhoods don’t even have joint representation. Another interesting fact that I thought was interesting in here was how so many school districts in Ohio are split between congressional districts.
So 67 statewide districts are spliced in two, and that includes 13 school districts. They only have two buildings. These are tiny school districts. One building is in one district, one building’s in another. How are those school districts getting good representation under those circumstances?
Chris Quinn (07:17.854)
Nothing surprising there and the League of Women Voters is a big backer of issue one. So nothing surprising that they’ve come out with a study in the middle of election season to try and end it. You are listening to Today in Ohio. Back to the Baldwin Wallace survey. Let’s talk about what Ohioans think of their elected leaders from Joe Biden on down the ranks. Laura, it’s amazing how much people like Mike DeWine.
Laura (07:57.522)
Yes, that’s about the only one because people in general don’t like politicians. So 30 % of Ohioans think that Joe Biden is doing a good or excellent job compared to 50 % who say poor. This does not surprise me. Democrats have a 74 % approval and about 6 % for Republicans. Now compare that to Mike DeWine. 45 % of people think he’s doing a good or excellent job. Only 22 %
think he’s doing a poor job. And then when you take that 60 % of voters across the political spectrum agree with Governor DeWine and his calls for us to treat Springfield better and to ignore lies spread by politicians like Trump and Vance. He’s saying that this harmful rhetoric about legal Haitian immigrants really hurts the city and its people. So that could be playing into this. think people see
Mike DeWine as a human being first and as a grandfatherly type figure in Ohio who has been in politics for the majority of his life and they trust him. So, and you know, he is a Republican. We have a majority Republican state. So maybe that’s that helps there. But I think even the Democrats, they they might not agree with everything Mike DeWine does. We just talked about redistricting, but they think he’s a good guy.
Chris Quinn (09:25.172)
I think it’s because he tapped into some issues that tugged at hard strings. He tapped into the pandemic in a big way when people all had anxiety and he was there every day saying, I’ve got this, we’re going to get you through it. He did the same thing with Springfield. think, and this poll asks about that, and it’s very clear that people appreciate that he stood up for Springfield when every other Republican leader
Laura (09:26.15)
Go ahead.
Laura (09:46.076)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Quinn (09:54.378)
was thrown Springfield under the bus in their worship of Donald Trump. It was pathetic how that worked out from the attorney general across the board. Republicans acted like jackasses in spreading the ugly stuff. One guy in the Republican party stood up and said, stop this. He wrote an op-ed and he told Politico how disgusted he was with what JD Vance and Trump were doing. And this survey brings that in. What did people tell?
Baldwin Wallace about that.
Laura (10:25.682)
Well, that’s the 60 % that approve of how he handled that, that they agree with him.
Chris Quinn (10:33.386)
They hate the legislature, right?
Laura (10:34.994)
Only 21 % though rated them poor. That surprised me. I would have thought it’d be a lot higher. The biggest rating was 40 % fair, 24 % good for the legislature. And then they both had shared Brown and JD Vance are both on this poll. We didn’t look at Moreno. We didn’t look at other Harris or…
waltz in this poll because we’re talking about Ohio politicians. So 37 % of Ohioans think he’s doing a good or excellent job. That’s Sherrod Brown. 33 % think he’s doing a poor job. Obviously, Democrats have higher opinions. But Vance, good or excellent, is only 34 % and 38 % say poor. So it’s little bit of a switch there that Sherrod Brown actually has a better reputation than JD Vance, which doesn’t surprise you when you look at the national
take on Vance, but when you’re looking at Ohio specifically, I was surprised by that.
Chris Quinn (11:36.054)
Yeah, I’m not surprised that Sherrod is ahead of Vance. Sherrod Brown’s been around a long time. People respect him. And Vance is a short-timer. I think part of the problem for this survey is Vance hasn’t been around very long. So I don’t know that people have had the time to form opinions of him, although they’re certainly getting a taste of him in this presidential election. You’re listening to Today in Ohio.
Remember the phony furor over critical race theory a couple of years back, that issue that Republicans threw out there to appeal to the fringe and their base? Lisa, what’s the surprising survey finding about Ohioans and teaching about race and racism in public schools?
Lisa (12:17.93)
Yeah, I was shocked when I looked at these numbers. So the question was, do you support teaching the history of race and racism in the United States? Overall, 84.3 % said they strongly or somewhat supported. And this is pretty evenly divided between women and men and the 18 to 49 and 50 plus age demographics at right around 84 % a piece. When you look at by party,
93.7 % of Democrats as opposed to 77.6 Republicans, that’s a 16 point spread. And then independents come in at 84%. If you look at ideology, conservatives, well, of course liberals, 93.5 % said they support it. Conservatives, 72.9%. It’s a 20.6 point spread between them and the liberals, but still.
That is a lot higher than I ever expected. Moderates coming in at 90.7 % and in this, in, you know, urbanicity, what they call it. urban people were most likely to support it. Rural was actually higher than suburbs by a point in supporting the teaching of race and racism in schools. Evangelicals, this shocked me. 81.3 % of evangelicals support teaching it in school.
Chris Quinn (13:37.46)
Look, I say it all the time. Ohio is a centrist state and the people who are centrist want good education. Part of our history as a nation is racism and we’ve done a lot to try and overcome it. To not teach about it in schools would increase racism. And so it’s great to see this. It just flies in the face of all that nonsense that the
that the far right tried to create about critical race theory. People in Ohio want the basics taught. They want students to know about our full history. A really heartening finding, I think.
Lisa (14:18.726)
It was, and even if you look at the highest strongly opposing the teaching of race and racism, the highest was conservatives at 9.9%. So that’s still just below 10%. I was kind of surprised by that as well. The highest somewhat opposed was conservatives again at 13.8%.
Chris Quinn (14:38.526)
All right, you are listening to Today in Ohio. The Ohio legislature has done everything possible to put guns into the hands of as many people as possible, even including the mentally ill. What did the Baldwin Wallace survey find about Ohioans attitudes about guns, Courtney?
Courtney (14:56.342)
Well, similar to what we were just talking about, this poll really shows, I’d say, a centrist Ohio preference or even leaning towards many more gun restrictions. So some of the big takeaways we found from this poll was that there was an overwhelming share of respondents who said they favor expanding background checks for gun buyers who are 18 to 21 years old. A whopping 86 % of respondents favored that move.
And we see similarly high numbers across a wide range of gun control related issues. So for instance, 75 % said they support raising the minimum age to buy an AR-15 style rifle from 18 to 21. Another 75 % supported red flag laws, which would allow the temporary removal of guns from individuals who have been deemed to be dangerous. 56%, so still a solid majority,
favor an outright ban on the sale of AR-15 style semi-automatic rifles. Similar for limiting the size of magazines, 62 % in favor. But you know, what I found interesting is here in here is that, you know, we also see how much this issue may not rise to the top of priorities when voters decide who they’re voting for. Only about 4 % of respondents here identified gun violence as
the most important issue facing the country. But still, when you get into the nitty gritty of these proposals, there’s widespread support.
Chris Quinn (16:30.966)
In its common sense, I mean, right now in Ohio, if somebody is taken to a mental hospital because they were threatening to kill themselves with a gun, the police take the gun away. But as soon as they leave the hospital, they can go get the gun back, even though there are signs that they were going to harm themselves. That’s what the red flag law would stop. It would keep the gun out of the hands of people who are in critical kind of issues and
Ohioans get that the legislature doesn’t get it. The legislature is completely in the pocket of the gun industry. But again, it’s great to see Ohioans saying, yeah, you know, an 18 year old probably isn’t the right person to have an AR 15. That’s pretty much a automatic weapon. Let’s wait till they get a little bit beyond those crazy adolescent years where their hormones are flying around before they can have one of those guns. It’s pretty basic and simple. And yet our lawmakers, because they’re so gerrymandered,
don’t see it. So another good heartening result that the survey
Courtney (17:33.214)
One thing I found interesting here looking at these different proposals, you know, while there were majority or near majority support across, you know, many different demographic groups that they that they zeroed in on overwhelmingly in these in these separate questions about different gun control measures, suburban folks were the ones who were most likely to strongly favor a lot of these proposals. So say raising the minimum age to buy an AR 15 style weapon.
divided between urban, rural, and suburban folks. Suburban folks were the highest respondents to say they favor it. So that’s really interesting when we talk about how the suburbs play a role in our election.
Chris Quinn (18:14.794)
can’t wait to see the election results in November because I think the suburbs are going to surprise us there too. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. Ohioans are much less liberal in their thinking when it comes to transgender issues than they are on guns and some of the other issues we’ve talked about. Laura, what did the survey find about that?
Laura (18:34.403)
It’s pretty clear that they don’t want to go this liberal way of thinking where transgender people can act as the gender that they have chosen to be that they feel aligned with. And I feel like this is such a small issue when you talk about high school sports or something with the number of
boys who have transitioned to girls wanting to play girls varsity sports, the number is less than 10. You can count it on two hands. Yet it has become this massive political dividing line for us as a state. And it’s being pushed by both sides. If you watch the Bernie Moreno commercials against Sherrod Brown, there’s like too liberal for Ohio, too liberal for us. And it says that he voted to allow men in women’s restrooms. And it is not that clear cut.
But Ohioans don’t want to be told that that could happen, right? So 60 % strongly oppose allowing transgender athletes to play on the team that matches their gender identity. Only 7 % of Ohioans strongly support that. 37 % of Democrats strongly oppose, as the other 15 % somewhat oppose. So while this is largely seen as a liberal issue and conservatives paint it that way, even the Democrats
don’t want people who were born as boys to play on those teams. And it’s about the same kind of opposition for allowing transgender individuals to use public bathrooms that match their gender identity. 54 % strongly oppose that, another 12 % somewhat oppose. So you’ve got 66 % of Ohioans agreeing on that, 32 % of the Democrats agree, 73 % of the Republicans. And then if you want to break it down,
for where people live, 51 % urban, 50 % suburban, and 66 % rural strongly oppose that. So Ohioans are overwhelmingly against it.
Chris Quinn (20:36.434)
I suspect this is the reason for this is this issue has moved at lightning speed. If you compare this to the gay marriage issue, which was debated for decades, I mean, it wasn’t that it was a 10, 15 years ago, Ohio voted for a constitutional amendment to ban it. But slowly, as more and more education went out, more people came to understand what was going on. Attitudes change. We didn’t get that with this. This this issue came up seemingly overnight.
People that that are strongly in support of it pushed it really hard and a whole lot of people that are centrist are uncomfortable with it as of now. think is more education is done. People may see their attitudes change because when you look at it much more closely a lot of this is not unreasonable but because it came so fast because there’s been so little time to digest it and because the Republicans are using it as a dog whistle issue.
Laura (21:14.962)
Mm-hmm.
Laura (21:26.983)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Quinn (21:35.732)
We have hard, hard attitudes about it. People are not ready to embrace this at all as this survey shows.
Laura (21:42.492)
Yeah, I agree that it did come on really fast. mean, were we talking about this five years ago even? I don’t think so. And I think people feel taken aback. They don’t like to be told what to do. I think that’s pretty clear across all the spectrum. they don’t want it. These are hardwired beliefs that are going to take some time to get used to. It’s like the pronouns and people don’t want to be pushed.
too fast. I feel like this is one of those issues that if you push too hard, then people backlash, right? They’re like, you can’t tell me that I’m a bad person just because I don’t want boys who become girls. And then they become even more conservative because they don’t like being labeled as backwards.
Chris Quinn (22:23.968)
Right.
Chris Quinn (22:29.846)
Right, right. again, I just think it’s time. The pronouns are another issue that came up on everybody overnight. And there were a lot of people that were uncomfortable with it. So what are you talking about? The grammar rules have been in place my whole life, and now you’re telling me to throw them out the window. And again, I think if we had discourse, if we didn’t have the Fox News disaster telling people all sorts of lies, we might be able to have discussions about it that we can’t have now.
You’re listening to Today in Ohio, salute to Lauren Copeland, Sean Salomon and the whole team at Baldwin Wallace. They did a great job with this survey. Fascinating findings. We’ll be talking about it for days. We could do an entire episode on the survey, but we do have some other topics worthy of discussion. We talk often in this country about the separation of church and state, so this next story could be interesting. Could Ohio be the first state in the nation to spend our tax dollars to build religious schools given
Lisa (23:31.444)
So the Washington DC based Americans United for Separation of Church and State are launching an investigation into $5.6 million in Ohio’s capital budget that was put there for remodeling and construction at 10 Ohio private schools. It was quietly slipped into the budget in late June and didn’t come to light until three weeks ago with a ProPublica article about the subject. So.
This group, Americans United, they’re going after their eight of the 10 schools are religious. So those are the ones that they’re focusing on. These schools received anywhere from $1.5 million. That’s the Mansfield Christian School to $4,000. That’s St. Mary’s Catholic School in Chardon. And that’s for playground enhancements. The Mansfield money is for improvements. So Americans United CEO, Rachel Laser says, this is forcing taxpayers to fund the building of
private and religious schools. It obliterates the promise of religious freedom. And she says it’s right out of the Christian nationalist playbook. But a Senate president, Matt Huffman’s spokesman, John Fortney says it’s a lie that the left is using to vilify parents who send their kids to the school of their choice. And he has said it’s just one time funding that any organization or community can apply for. And the projects for these are for projects that don’t qualify for capital budget.
Chris Quinn (24:54.28)
It’s frightening that the money, tax dollars could be used to build religious institutions. That’s never been permitted and it’s not permitted elsewhere either. Fortney is just a total mouthpiece for the far right in Ohio. It’s not credible at all. This does deserve discussion and the fact that it slipped through without any, it’s just more evidence of how gerrymandered we are. Matt Huffman is one of the worst leaders we’ve ever seen.
Lisa (25:15.454)
Mm-hmm.
Chris Quinn (25:22.73)
We should have had an open discussion about whether this is a good idea.
Lisa (25:26.024)
Right. And if they were so proud of it, why did they just like slip it in as the budget was coming to a close? So this is what’s called the one-time strategic community investment fund. It’s like $717 million and it’s provided money for all kinds of things. The Rock Hall of Fame, the West Side Market, but Senate Finance Committee Chair, Matt Dolan, the Republican from Chagrin Falls says, well, you know, we got $4 billion in requests and most didn’t make it. And he said what they looked at
when they awarded this money was the impact on economic development and quality of life. I’m not sure if schools fit in there or I don’t know.
Chris Quinn (26:01.466)
it gets back to if you feel so strongly about it, why didn’t you do it in the sunshine? Why didn’t you have the discussion? Why did you sneak it through? Makes you wonder what kind of antics they’re going to pull in the lame duck session this year. It’s to be one hell of a time trying to cover the stuff that they secretly pass. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. Vice presidential candidates JD Vance and Tim Walz agree that a shortage of affordable child care is straining American families.
but they’re not aligned at all on how to approach it. Courtney, how do they differ?
Courtney (26:35.744)
Yeah. Well, the pair also agree that the federal government needs to help out in this category, but how the federal government would go about it, you know, polar opposite kind of views here when it comes to what help the fed should offer Vance, who’s, you know, a big proponent of urging Americans to have more kids. He’s saying what candidate Donald Trump is saying is that tax dollars should be used to subsidize informal childcare providers.
through churches or neighborhoods, not formal, you know, just standalone childcare providers. He is looking for tax dollars to subsidize places like churches or neighborhood groups who provide care. But similar to the way that Trump proposes paying for it, Vance says that tariffs that Trump wants to impose against companies that send jobs overseas and do other things that they don’t like, that if you levy those tariffs,
It’ll create a ton of economic growth and that economic growth will give the federal government money somehow to pay for these childcare options. Economists don’t believe this math would work. It’s not a thing. Right, right.
Chris Quinn (27:48.914)
No, it wouldn’t work. It’s complete fiction. It’s just nonsense that’s being peddled to people who don’t understand the economy. Tariffs will cripple American families. The rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer. That is just one of the… He told so many lies during the debate. This was a big one.
Lisa (27:49.544)
No, not at all.
Courtney (28:08.716)
Yeah, and Waltz kind of made the same point you guys did too, that adds a ton of money to the backs of families. It doesn’t help alleviate spending when it comes to childcare. On Waltz’s side of the equation, he’s really kind of emphasizing the universal paid family leave program he helped usher through in Minnesota during his time as governor there. And that program is funded by a payroll tax that’s split between employers and workers.
You know, Walt during the debate also told us that he favors a way to make it easier to get people into the childcare business and really talked about what we pay childcare workers. We know that they’re among the lowest paid workers in the country, you know, that industry and they need to earn a decent salary. That’s how, how you help get more folks in there and combat that shortage.
Chris Quinn (29:00.778)
What I loved about this more than anything is five years ago, three years ago, no one was talking about child care. And for seven minutes in a national debate, the nation was hearing about child care. Laura, you had to just be exultant.
Laura (29:18.502)
think I said, mean, finally, finally, I feel like people are addressing this. And we, came to a head in COVID. It really came up when people went home to work from their houses. And we’re like, wow, caring for these kids is really difficult. It’s like, yes, and businesses realized, wow, it would be really helpful if we had great childcare that is affordable and dependable, because then we’d have our workers. And so people finally started realizing it.
And we’ve been talking about it. Governor DeWine’s been talking about it. We have six bills in the state legislature that would address different parts of it. All sorts of states have come up with ideas. So yes, it is so gratifying to acknowledge that this is a national crisis that we have to do something about. Now, do I think that informal neighborhood groups are going to solve it? No. mean, part of the issue with child care is that people need to be certified and trained because they’re taking care of our very most precious
Lisa (29:50.263)
have come up with ideas. So yes, it is so.
Laura (30:11.738)
you know, people in our society. So you can’t just, they need to be certified and regulated. So I don’t really see that as a solution.
Chris Quinn (30:14.07)
Yeah, right.
Chris Quinn (30:18.612)
Right. We’ll have to leave it there. You’re listening to Today in Ohio. Thanks, Lisa. Thanks, Laura. Thanks, Courtney. Thank you for listening. We’ll be back Thursday talking about the news.
