Breaking down Cavs season predictions and NBA opening night insights: Wine and Gold Talk podcast

Takeaways:

• LeBron James’s longevity is unmatched in NBA history.
• The Boston Celtics are a tier above every team in the Eastern Conference.
• Cleveland Cavaliers have the potential to be a top-two seed in the East.
• Dean Wade is likely to fill the small forward position.
• Jarrett Allen remains a crucial part of the Cavs’ success, even though he’s been considered a potential trade piece.
• Kenny Atkinson and the Cavs need to balance experimentation with winning games.

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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Ethan Sands (00:02.176)

What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. Joining me, Beat Reporter, Cavs, cleveland.com, Chris Fedor. Chris, I’m entering my second year on the beat, but I know you’ve been around for a little bit. You’re the veteran. I might be still a little bit of a rookie. What year is this for you?

Chris (00:36.541)

This has been too long, Ethan. Way too long. No, it’s year 11 actually, going into year 11. Last year was big number 10 for me. This year is 11. I don’t know how much longer I’m going to be doing this for, but I’m still kicking. I’m still looking forward to a new season. So I feel like that’s a good sign. When you’re excited about the new regular season,

That’s usually a pretty good sign that you still love what you do.

Ethan Sands (01:09.418)

year 11 and still seeing new things happen, right? It’s the beginning of the season. We got to see a couple of games tonight, Boston, Knicks. Then you got to see the Lakers and the Timberwolves. Obviously, the biggest one on the storylines was LeBron James and Bronny James being able to take onto the court together for the first time with Ken Griffey Jr., Ken Griffey Sr. in the building. A big moment.

not only because of the father-son duo, but also because LeBron James is entering his 22nd season. The only other player to do that is Vince Carter. Chris, I know you have covered him for a long time, have talked to him a lot. What is your take on the longevity of LeBron James entering this season?

Chris (02:02.141)

Yeah, Ethan, mean, I think that’s something that separates him in the conversation of the greatest of all time. Sustained greatness from LeBron. For him to be still so effective at this level. I don’t know if he’s a top five player in the NBA, but he’s certainly a top ten player in the league. So to be this far into his career and still playing

as one of the best players in the league, that’s… that’s something that I don’t know that’s going to be duplicated. He obviously works really, really hard on his body. He stays in great shape. He commits himself to all of the things that are required to be a great player. And it’s just… you you never want to count him out. You never say…

that he can’t do something because then he’ll turn around and he’ll shove it in your face and he’ll find a way to do it. So for him to still be putting up the numbers that he’s putting up, be in the conversation for all NBA, be in the conversation at various points for all stars and MVPs this deep into his career, that sustained greatness is something, like I said, I don’t know that it’s going to be duplicated. I think it’s…

special to LeBron and I think that’s one of the things that he is always going to have. You know, we talk about Michael Jordan, we talk about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, we talk about the other greats that have come before LeBron, but nobody has done it at this level for such a long time consistently the way that LeBron has. And I never take him for granted. That’s the one thing that I learned a long time ago.

When you have an opportunity to witness greatness, when you have an opportunity to be around greatness and see the work that he puts in behind the scenes and be able to interact with him like I’ve been lucky enough to do throughout the course of my career, I never take that for granted. That’s one of the things that I love the most about this job, this business is that you are around greatness and you get an opportunity.

Chris (04:20.477)

to witness somebody’s career unfold. And for me to be in this business doing it as long as I have, and my career has kind of intersected and overlapped with LeBron’s, I feel very, very fortunate because of that.

Ethan Sands (04:39.914)

mean, when you think about 22 years, right? Like just greatness and what he’s been able to accomplish over that time, I think you’re right. Like you cannot take it for granted. On another note, there’s a team that is going to be a tough one to combat when it comes to the Cleveland Cavaliers. And that’s the Boston Celtics. And the Boston Celtics tonight in opening night were able to

tie an NBA record for three-pointers made in a single game and they took it and they didn’t surpass it. They tied it and they were trying everything they could over the last nine minutes with their role players in the game to get that record, but we’re not able to do so. The other thing that made that notable from that game is one.

They did break the season opener record, of course, obviously that kind of goes hand in hand, but Jason Tatum, 37 points coming off, kind of being not snubbed, but like kept off the court during the Olympics and having a minor role when he had to see some other guys that he believed weren’t as good playing more than him. I just think this offense is one, so scary and two,

Jason Tatum is coming back and showed that he’s on a vengeance tour for something that he still got to experience. I can only imagine what Donovan Mitchell is gonna do.

Chris (06:14.503)

Ethan, don’t even have Porzingis. Think about that. You know, there were people inside the Cavs locker room last year that were calling Porzingis the cheat code. They don’t even have him. And they’re able to do this on opening night against the Knicks. A long time ago, one of my mentors said, never say never, Chris, because it’s the NBA and crazy things happen. I’m not going to sit here and say that there is nobody in the NBA that can beat Boston four times in seven tries. But.

I don’t know who can beat Boston four times in seven tries. just, I don’t. If they’re healthy, good luck. And I just have a feeling when watching Boston, Ethan and I have the same feeling that I had all those years ago when I was watching the Dynastic Golden State Warriors. I remember watching those teams and saying, especially when they added Kevin to right.

They added Kevin Durant to a 73 win record setting team. And when they did that, I just remember saying to myself, who the hell is going to beat this team four times in seven tries? What are you supposed to… Avoiding a sweep is success against that caliber of a team. That’s the way that I looked at the Warriors. I look at Boston the same kind of way. Good luck to the Eastern Conference.

because that team brought everybody back and this is a better version of Jason Tatum. His shot looks so much better. And they don’t even have poor Zingus yet. So like to be able to play the style that they do at both ends of the floor and have five threats to knock down threes every single minute that they play. It’s just not the kind of team that we’ve seen very often over the last

two decades. I just feel like they’re the kind of team that you can pencil into the NBA Finals every single year if they’re healthy. And that’s the way that I felt about the Warriors. That’s the way that I felt about the Cavs. Remember when the Cavs were going through their run in four straight NBA Finals? I just remember looking at it and say, okay, good luck, Toronto. Good luck, Indy. Good luck, Atlanta. Like, it was just a given.

Chris (08:37.127)

that it was going to be the Cavs in the NBA finals. And it was a given that it was going to be the Warriors in the finals. And I feel like we’ve reached that point with Boston.

Ethan Sands (08:48.808)

Yep, and it came against the team that everybody’s been looking forward to, Chris. Everybody’s been talking so much trash about how good the New York Knicks were gonna be and how good they were gonna be with Kat and how that matchup with Jalen Brunson was gonna be perfect and seamless and all these different things. But it’s really, really hard for your first game to be against the Boston Celtics. It’s hard for the Knicks to be without Mitchell Robinson, Precious.

And not to mention McAlbridges’s shot just looks like garbage. Like, I’m sorry. I can’t even put it a nice way. Like, that might be the nicest way I could put it without getting fined, right? So, I’m…

Chris (09:21.959)

Yeah

Chris (09:32.711)

And here’s the thing, Ethan, they might be good this year. The Knicks might be the second best team in the Eastern Conference. By the time the playoffs roll around, they’re probably going to be different, right? Cap’s going to have a better understanding of how to play that two-man game with Jalen Brunson and Mikael Bridges maybe is going to be more comfortable and he’s going to be more comfortable with his new looking shot. And OG Ananobe is going to be further removed from injury. And you can say all those different things about the Knicks.

And like they are a good team. that just tells you how great Boston is. Like Boston to me is on a tier all by themselves. Nobody else belongs on that tier with Boston. They have separated themselves from everybody else in the NBA. Remember at the time that the Warriors were going to the finals over and over and over again. And Joe Lake was like, Hey, we’re light years ahead of everybody. Boston’s light years ahead of the rest of the NBA.

And I don’t think that’s hyperbolic. I don’t think that’s prisoner at the moment. They’re the reigning NBA champions. They brought everybody back. I think some of their players are going to be even better this year and they still don’t even have Porzingis. Like I talked about, Joe Mazzullo is going to be more comfortable as a coach and all of these different things. So when we make these power rankings, it’s Boston one and a grand Canyon sized gap of everybody else in the NBA behind them.

And that’s no disrespect to New York, to Cleveland, to Denver, to any other team that you want to throw out there. But Boston has earned that place and they made New York look like the Chicago Bulls tonight. A team that will be fighting for a play-in tournament spot. A team that’s probably destined for the lottery. And New York’s not that. New York to me is the second best team in the Eastern Conference.

But that just shows you the gap between Boston and everybody else, including New

Ethan Sands (11:32.156)

And for me, now we’re giving takes, we’re giving predictions, all these other things. You can also go read mine and Chris’s articles that got published on cleveland.com to get more in depth with our predictions. We gave those on Tuesday. But if we’re talking about NBA finals, right? We touched on that briefly. I want to get to the calves here in a second, but here’s my prediction. Boston Celtics, Oklahoma City Thunder, it. Like,

That is what I think is going to happen. That is what I think is the best matchup. And I think that might be the only team, when fully healthy, to be able to contend with the Boston Celtics currently. And that, like we said, that’s not even with Kristof Porzingis in the lineup. But for me,

I think that if the Cavs can get past a rocky start potentially getting through all the kinks and the offensive adjustments and still being able to play as a top 10 potentially top five defense in the NBA, not just in the Eastern Conference, in the NBA, that I think they can be the number two seed in this, in the Eastern Conference, especially when you talk about the Knicks dealing with the injuries that I mentioned.

Philadelphia is gonna be without Joellen B and Paul George for at least a week That’s not even gonna talk about that Joellen B. is talked about not playing in back-to-backs for the rest of his career That’s a big one. And then obviously you’ve got teams like Orlando, Indiana Miami all contending but they might not have the the continuity the consistency the drive that this team has that the Cavs have

Especially when you talk about wanting to have that regular season success while all these other teams are more Focused on getting their top players to the playoffs period rather than being like, okay You’re injured coming back from something. Can we get you to play one two games? Whatever. It’s get Joel and be to the playoffs It’s get Yonis onto the cupo to the playoffs all these different things and that’s why I think the calves can contend for a top two seed and if they do that

Ethan Sands (13:43.188)

they could get to the Eastern Conference Finals, because that would mean that they play Boston in the Eastern Conference Finals.

Chris (13:50.643)

Yeah, I I don’t think it’s unheard of for the Cavs to get to number two in the East. I have them finishing third in the East, but the truth is beyond Boston, you know, there are a lot of questions with these teams. You mentioned it. What version of the 76ers are we going to get? What version of Joel Embiid are we going to get? He’s already dealing with something.

I think Paul George is a great addition. Caleb Martin, really, really smart addition. Kelly O’Braid Jr., they boosted their wing depth in a significant way to better compete with the likes of Boston, who are just loaded with all-star caliber wings. But when you add new pieces, built into that is a level of uncertainty.

I don’t know if New York’s going to be, like, I can’t sit here and say that New York is definitively going to be better with Carl Anthony Towns instead of Julius Randall. I’m not going to sit here and definitively say that the version of McHale Bridges that they got is going to be more productive and more reliable and more consistent than what they got from Dante DiVincenzo last year, who a lot of people wanted to put on their most improved ballot.

I just think beyond Boston, Ethan, there is so much uncertainty in the Eastern Conference that there is a pathway to the Cavs finishing second in the East, for sure. You can keep going down the list, like is Indiana going to hold up on the defensive end of the floor? Will their offense be as prolific and lethal as it was last year, or is there going to be some regression? The Orlando Magic, are they ready to go from good to great?

Or are they just that team that is going to stick there right in the middle of the pack in terms of the playoff seeding? So I think because the East has so many teams with questions, and Milwaukee, is it ever going to come together? Does it work with Giannis and Dame? Does it work with Doc Rivers? Will Gary Trent Jr, Torrey and Prince, and the other components that they added,

Chris (16:06.693)

I’m just around the margins be able to make up for the fact that Chris Middleton’s coming off of ankle surgeries and he’s probably not going to be a hundred percent for the first couple of weeks, maybe even the first month of the season and he’s getting older and they don’t have a lot of wiggle room to improve their roster at the trade deadline and all of those different factors. I just feel like the level of uncertainty in the Eastern Conference, despite the fact that these teams improved,

from a talent perspective, there is a level of uncertainty about how the pieces fit and then whether or not those teams are going to come together the way that it feels like the Cavs will from the very beginning of the season because they have familiarity. They have continuity and yeah, they’re going to change some things.

within their offense and they’re going to try and get Evan Mobley more involved offensively and make him more of a focal point. there might be growing pains that come with that, but the level of continuity and familiarity that they have just from a team perspective, I think is going to benefit them greatly. And it would not surprise me if the kids finished second in the Eastern Conference. It wouldn’t surprise me at all.

Ethan Sands (17:25.46)

And it’s not saying that these other teams aren’t gonna put up a fight. I just think that they could drop more games than they should have because of other things that might debilitate them in their rosters throughout the season. And we’re already seeing that with a lot of these different teams, especially the ones that you mentioned, Chris. But I wanna get over to the Cavs and specifically talk about this next matchup on Wednesday, the season opener, you are in Toronto.

getting into the season, I’m excited, you’re excited, but Chris, this Cavs team, this continuity, the one piece that they gotta figure out how it’s gonna fit in, and Kenny Atkinson has touched on how it could change based on matchups and all that, is the small forward position with Max Drews being injured and out for the first six weeks, first 20 games of the season at least, right? For me,

with this larger team, Toronto, right? They have almost everybody except for Emmanuel quickly is six foot six and above. And that’s also gonna be kind of pick and play because RJ Barrett’s out. So we have to see what they do with his positioning. But for me, the person to slide into this starting spot for tomorrow at least for the Toronto Raptors opening night game.

I think it would have to be Dean Wade just because of size, because of spacing, and because of the tempo that this team wants to play with. But, and I, the other thing that I wanted to ask you about is how closely you’re gonna watch the matchup between Evan Mobley and Scotty Barnes. Because those are the two players that we’ve talked about a lot this off season, and this is the first time that they’re gonna get to match up after getting max contracts.

Chris (19:11.933)

Yeah Logie, when it comes to the starting small forward spot, whoever it is going to be, and I do believe it’s going to be Dean. Dean has practiced with the starting group the three days that the Cavs have been preparing for Toronto. Saturday, Monday, and Tuesday. And I don’t buy Kenny Atkinson’s explanation that he’s going to continue to rotate his starting small forward. I think that is subterfuge.

I think that is trying to keep the opponent guessing as much as possible. I think he’s going to give Dean an opportunity to solidify the small forward spot for as long as Max Struess is going to be out. And Max is going to be reevaluated in six weeks. So he’s at least going to be out six weeks. But I think it’s going to be Dean’s starting small forward spot until he gives Kenny Atkinson

a reason to change that. just don’t see a new coach who is so cognizant of continuity and chemistry and he’s so aware of what he wants to do with his lineups and his rotations. I just don’t see him starting a different small forward every other game or something like that. I just don’t think you can do that. I think it’s hard to get into a rhythm. I think it’s hard to get

the chemistry that you would want and unless there’s a reason for him to change, unless Dean shows that he cannot be a starter quality small forward, then I think it’s going to be him. I think he’s the most logical fit of all the options that they do have. Karras-Levert, two ball dominant. He was third on the team in usage rating last year behind Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland.

I don’t think you can have those three guys being high minute players that share the floor a bunch throughout the course of a game. I certainly don’t think you can have them in the starting lineup. And I think Isaac, the issues that you have with him still exist. And I think they get magnified even more when he plays next to Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. If the Cavs are going to be committed to this pace and this space and

Chris (21:33.297)

three-point shooting and all these different things Ethan that they’ve talked about throughout the course of the last couple of weeks How can you play three guys? That the defense just doesn’t believe in from a shooting standpoint That’s tough. I Just think it leads to too much congestion I think it makes things more difficult on the other players in the starting lineup if Isaac is going to be out there and if

Opponents are going to ignore him on the offensive end the way that they have in the past So if the Cavs want to play the style that they’ve been talking about then Dean Wade is the most logical fit for that putting him next to Jared Allen and Evan Mobley That makes more sense than Isaac because there’s more spacing involved. There’s more three-point shooting involved

And at the very least, and this isn’t to say that Dean is a significantly better offensive player than Isaac, it’s not to say that Dean is a significantly better outside shooter than Isaac, but he’s more of a threat and he has more of a reputation as that. And I think it leads to the defense having to pay attention to Dean in a different kind of way than what they would if Isaac was in that starting line.

If Isaac was in that starting lineup, I think the defense would say, we’ve got somebody that we can use as a help defender. Send that guy closer to Darius, send that guy closer to Donovan, send that guy crashing down in the paint on Jared Allen or Evan Mobley. And I just don’t think that that’s something that the Cavs want to deal with, especially early on in the season, that level of congestion that they could have.

offensively. So I do think it’s going to be Dean. It’s going to be up to him to show that he can be a starter in the NBA, that he can fit alongside Darius Donovan, Evan and Jarrett. And when it comes to Evan and Scotty Barnes, look, there is a natural tie between those two guys. It’s always going to be there. You’re talking about the third overall pick and the fourth overall pick.

Chris (23:53.981)

You’re talking about two guys that the Cavs considered with a third overall pick. No matter where their careers go, they’re always going to be tied together. And every time that Evan plays against Toronto, you can just see a little bit more fire. You can see a little bit more passion. And I think every time Scotty Barnes plays against the Cavs, like there’s a little bit in his own mind of

y’all made the wrong decision and I’m going to show you.

Ethan Sands (24:26.984)

Yeah, and another wrinkle to the Caris Laverte situation, right? You mentioned usage, right? Right? And obviously having three ball dominant pretty much guards because Caris Laverte is more of a guard than a forward. Like saying that and then Kenny Atkinson also been talking about all year long, all off season long that he wants to up Evan Mobley’s usage rate. Like those two things don’t go together. Like

Two things can’t be the same, correct, but not in this instance, right? Like they cannot have three ball-dominant players on the court at the same time, and then also say that, okay, Evan Mobley, we want you to do this. Karis Levert hasn’t been known to play off the ball, especially on this Cavs team. And then the other thing is that Kenny Atkinson had talked about how the adjustment to the small forward starter position will affect their…

rotations and things like that. And for me, Dean Wade will be able to mix and match in his positioning and those kinds of things. But Caris Lever, you want him as your sixth man. You want him coming off the bench to replace Darius or Donovan, depending on what you want to do in certain instances and for him to leave the second group, right? Less so do you want to mix and match Dean Wade saying, okay, Darius Garland said it today. Dean Wade can…

No disrespect to Isaac Acora or anybody else on the defensive end, but Darius Lee was like, y’all gotta put respect on Dean’s name. Keep saying three through five. He can guard one through five. And that’s a conversation that has helped them on the defensive end and has also given Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell confidence to not only read passing lanes. We saw it with Darius Garland in the preseason, having Dean Wade on the court, and you mentioned the offensive side, the defensive side, like that’s his bread and butter. That’s what he’s known for. And we’ve talked about it a lot. Like Isaac Kuro in Carousel Vert might be the best point of attack defenders on this team. Dean Wade might just be the best overall defender for this team. But for me, obviously Evan Mobley is in that conversation as well. It’s kind of, it’s difficult. It’s difficult, but I wanted to get to our subtextures.

Ethan Sands (26:50.602)

who had some questions for us leading into the season opener. Chris, the first one comes from our guy Ricardo in Atlanta. He says, I may be shell shocked from the Browns performance after going over in the preseason, but should we be at all concerned that the Cavs also went over as well? Have the players expressed any worry about it? Not to anybody that I know. They’re not worried about going over. How about you, Chris?

Chris (27:23.463)

Thank you.

Yeah, the players have not expressed concern about it. Look, there are numbers for everything. I think I did see a stat that teams that go 0-4 in the preseason, they’re like 11-5 to the under of their win total. So that’s obviously not the best sign for the Cavs. But I think it’s hard to put too much into that, especially given…

You some of the changes that the Cavs were trying to implement throughout preseason, some of the experimenting they did, the fact that they rested basically their entire starting lineup in the second game of the preseason, the fact that they were trying to be cognizant of the workload. If there was like something that was quote unquote alarming, it was the fact that

In the preseason finale, Chicago was playing their junior varsity, their end of roster guys, and the Cavs, like they couldn’t win that game. They had an opportunity with all their starters out there on the floor against the Chicago Nobodies, and they couldn’t win. It went into overtime, and then Kenny decided to pull those guys. So I thought there was an opportunity for more separation there for the Cavs.

and they didn’t find a way to do it. you know, given all the things that they were dealing with, given all the changes that they were trying to implement, given some of the things that they were trying to navigate in terms of injuries, Sam Merrill, Max Struz, I don’t think anything that I saw from their performance is all that alarming where I’m saying, boy, they’re screwed going up against Toronto, or boy, when they play at home against the Pistons, look out.

Chris (29:17.263)

upset alert or Washington or New York or the first few weeks of this season are going to be a disaster or something like that. You could tell that Donovan didn’t have the level of MVP intensity that he’s going to have when he plays in the regular season. And you could tell that he wasn’t being as quote unquote selfish or the Donovan that we’ve grown to expect. so I don’t think

just because they went 0-4, that is a sign that they are doomed at the beginning of this season.

Ethan Sands (29:53.524)

Yeah, I’m in complete agreement just because like

It’s a new slate, right? And like you said, like preseason regular season, two very different commodities. And you got to figure out where you’re going in the preseason so that you can execute it in the regular season. And to quote Darius Garland, the Cavs don’t run from smoke. So it doesn’t matter who they’re playing. They’re going to go after them. Like it’s a brand new game, brand new season. That’s happened even last year after losses. They had a brand new mindset and win after the next opponent with a brand new

Chris (30:19.676)

Hmm.

Ethan Sands (30:27.282)

like just agenda. But the next question coming from Daniel in Seattle, he says, have you gotten the sense from Kenny Atkinson or the organization in general, where they stand between getting lineups figured out even at the expense of wins or win as many games to get the best seed possible, even if that means less experimenting with rotations? So I think it’s both, right?

But I think they can experiment in the beginning and then begin to kind of calculate those wins because they get kind of into a rhythm, into a flow, especially if, as we talked about earlier, they stick with the Stingway that’s the small forward rather than changing that out on a matchup basis.

Chris (31:14.119)

Yeah, Ethan, I just don’t get the sense that they’re coming into this season saying to themselves, we need to chase regular season wins. We need to hunt regular season wins at all cost. They’re going to try and win the games. They’re going to try and finish with a high seed. Home court advantage would be important. Being on the other side of the bracket, away from Boston, also important. But there are things that they want to accomplish that they think

will put them in a better position going into the playoffs. And one of those things is implementing Evan Mobley as an offensive hub, getting his usage up, getting his touches up, getting him to be more of a focal point. And that means in some cases, Donovan taking a step back and Darius taking a step back. And that in some cases means hiccups and growing pains along the way, because it’s not just going to be snap your fingers and then Evan Mobley is going to evolve into this offensive force.

They’re going to be maybe some ugly nights with Evan Mobley. There are going to be moments throughout the course of a game where it just doesn’t look as fluid offensively or as rhythmic offensively because they’re working through some things, because they’re trying to see what works, what doesn’t work, what plays they can go to in certain situations, what lineups they can go to in certain situations. So I do think that the Cavs are entering the season, Ethan, with a bigger picture in play.

In saying that, they also have to be cognizant of what else happens in the Eastern Conference, where they are in the standings. They can’t afford to fall too far back and play catch up throughout the course of the year. I’ve talked about this a bunch on this podcast. I’ve written about this for Cleveland.com. It would not surprise me if it takes 50 wins.

to get one of the six locked in playoff spots in the Eastern Conference. So that’s something that the Cavs have to be cognizant of. The last thing that they can afford is to focus so much on the big picture and make all these changes that they want to make and then be a play-in tournament team. They can’t afford to be a play-in tournament team. They got to get one of the six locked in spots. So I don’t think they’re chasing wins.

Chris (33:36.731)

I don’t think they’re sitting there saying, let’s go for the number one seed in the Eastern Conference. That’s our primary goal. But I do think they have to be aware of what this Eastern Conference is going to look like and what they’re faced with when it comes to contending in the Eastern Conference.

Ethan Sands (33:58.366)

And I’ve talked about this a little bit as well, like having to figure out where this team stands. The core four in particular is a big focal point for this team. Obviously that’s why they’re the core four, but it’s more so the two pairings that make up the core four. How did Donovan and Darius work in Kenny Atkinson’s new system? Can Kenny Atkinson make the offensive adjustments necessary to bring the best out of Jared Allen and Evan Mobley or

By January, are you looking to make adjustments in the roster to get to one of those six locked in playoff spots because they’re simply not working with the adjustments that have been put together. But the next question that comes to mind from a new in San Francisco, the last question of the night, he says, what has been your biggest upside surprise from training camp and pre-season for me?

It’s been the adjustments that Ty Jerome has made in his shot, for me.

because of what he has done from training camp to preseason, seeing his shot not fall as much and then coming back after the preseason in a little training camp session and continue to work on it and get better at it. From my perspective, it looks like he’s gotten a lot smoother and we know that he is a pass for his guard. So if he’s able to increase his three point potential whilst still being able to facilitate the rock at a high clip, I think he’s a guy to watch for.

and we’ve talked about him at length at being one of the guys that could come off the bench and help out with Darius and Donovan if they don’t already put the Cavs don’t already put Donovan into the point guard role and try and keep one of the two guards on the court at all times.

Chris (35:47.153)

Even for me it’s Jared Allen. And I don’t want to sit here and say that Jared Allen is like the forgotten member of the core four, but he’s the one that everybody has off this team as soon as possible. He’s the one that people look at as an impediment to Evan Mobley’s evolution. Because people look at Evan and they say his future is as a center in the NBA, not a power forward.

So Jarrett needs to go to give Evan freedom. That’s the feeling around the NBA. And like, this is a guy who had a career year last year. This is a guy who agreed to a contract extension this past off season. This is a guy who has familiarity and a relationship with Kenny Atkinson. And I just feel like so much of the conversation over the last month, month and a half,

has been about Evan Mobley, the changes in offense with Evan Mobley, the things that Evan is going to do on the offensive end, the way that he’s going to knock down threes and take more threes, and the way that he’s going to be more involved on offense, and the way that he’s going to play center in a spread lineup and all this stuff. And all Jarrett has done in the preseason is dominate. Like he has looked like the guy that he was last year.

the guy who had a career year, the guy who was dominating physically the Orlando Magic before he got that pierced rib. So like…

All these people have sent Jared away. And they just assume that Jared is going to be traded by the Deadline. Who knows? Maybe he will be. Maybe the Cavs feel like the best way to get the best out of Evan is to break up those two guys. But like, teammates rave about Jared offensively and defensively. How much easier he makes everything for them. Both ends of the floor. And all he has done in preseason

Chris (37:53.723)

is dominate. So it’s like.

How do you sit here and say that the Cavs are a significantly better team without a top-five center in the Eastern Conference? Without a guy who is an all-star caliber player? So I just feel like this preseason and training camp in a way has been a reminder of, hi guys I’m still here they still like me

I’m still a member of the Core Four too. Like I get it, there’s excitement over the mystery box in Evan Mobley. But like, I’m 18 points per game in 12 rebounds and one of the most impactful defenders in the league. Like, that works. There’s value to keeping me on this roster. Before you start sending me to New Orleans or sending me to Los Angeles or wherever it is you want to send me.

Like I’m really freaking good at basketball and I’m really, really important to the success of this team. So I just feel like there’s been so much conversation about so many other guys on this team and what’s going to be different. And then you’ve got like the linchpin in Jared Allen, who has just looked regular season ready since the second he stepped on the floor for preseason basketball.

Ethan Sands (39:23.284)

I just like, I love Jared Allen’s demeanor, right? Because he’s not showy, flashy, none of that. He took all the disrespect that was dished to him, which after the Knicks series, sure, I understand it. But even after coming back and saying, y’all didn’t think I could play, because I had a pure thrill.

How about you go have a pierced rib and see if you can get hit every time going down the floor and see how you go play. Like this is a guy who comes about his business, does his business, gets the check and goes home to make computers, read a book or some regular people stuff, right? Like this is not.

Somebody that’s like, okay, I gotta go get some chains or whatever. I remember watching an interview about Jared Allen. He’s like, what am I gonna walk in here with a $25,000 chain? I’m good with my hoodie. Thank you. Like Jared Allen is, and like you mentioned Chris, like a double dome machine, been ready to showcase that he is so good. And to me, if the Cavs were to trade somebody away, they would regret playing

because they would have to play against Jared Allen at some point, right? And they would see that Jared Allen has these capabilities that they already knew he had, but yet seeing it against you is a very different flavor than seeing it in front of you every day and taking it for granted, right? So all that to say, Jared Allen, gonna have a great year. Evan Mobley, breakout year.

Does Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland work? That’s the pairing that I wanna see the most out of this year. But with that.

Chris (41:12.883)

Look, I mean, I think it’s fair to sit here and say that there’s stylistic overlap with Jared and Evan Mobley. We’ve talked a lot about that. And I think it’s fair to sit here and say that there’s stylistic overlap with Derek Scarland and Donovan Mitchell. And you just kind of have to work through those things. Despite that, I think it needs to be pointed out that with Jared Allen and Evan Mobley,

on the floor together, the last two seasons, while everybody’s talking about what doesn’t work with this team, while everybody’s talking about how those guys need to be broken up for each individual to thrive, over the last two seasons, with Jarrett and Evan on the floor together, the Cavs have an offensive rating of 118.6. 118.6? That would be good!

for fifth in the league. So yes, it would be really beneficial for Evan Mobley to be a better perimeter player. And yes, it would be really, really beneficial for Evan to start knocking down outside shots. But like when the Cavs sit here and say, there’s a bunch of data that points to it working, there is, and these just aren’t made up stats, right? These aren’t just like the ones that you pull up.

because they enhance your argument or something that’s literally just their offense rating with those two guys on the floor together. Like it has worked offensively. It has. Like despite the stylistic overlap, despite the questions about the spacing and the outside shooting, like they have found a way

to be successful. They’ve gone to back-to-back playoffs. They advanced to the Eastern Conference in my fondest. Like, it’s not to a point where it’s so dysfunctional with this offense, with those two guys on the floor together, that tomorrow they need to be split up or the Cavs can’t possibly reach their goal. 118.6!

Chris (43:35.325)

Fifth, fifth in the NBA. That would be fifth in the NBA over the last two seasons with those guys on the floor together. Like that’s not a made up stat. That’s how they function. That is their offensive rating with both those guys who supposedly can’t play together on the floor.

Ethan Sands (43:55.794)

It’s Atkinson’s job to tap into that and make that an overall offensive rating, not just with those two playing together. Making that happen for the entire team with the two pairings is what the difficult job is of Kenny Atkinson this season. And that’s what the major point is. That’s where the eyes are at. Can he make that happen? Can he make this offense better?

Chris (44:03.827)

That’s right.

Ethan Sands (44:23.76)

overall tap into the potential that he’s seen the potential that Evan Mobley showed in the postseason last year against the Boston Celtics and We’ve seen glimpses of it, right the pace numbers already the preseason that they went over in right They were the second highest rated pace team in the NBA So that’s one of the things that he’s talking about but there are other things that he wants to tap into while

Chris (44:45.201)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (44:52.732)

not losing the defensive identity that has made them who they are. That has been the most important thing for Kenny Atkinson because the defense hasn’t been great in the preseason to start the training camp, all those different things. Like if he can get them to do that and get the offense going, that’s where it is. But with all that being said, we will talk to you guys after the season opener.

against the Rafters. Chris is in Toronto, I’m kicking it in Cleveland, but you don’t want to miss out on any of this. So remember to become a CAS Insider and interact with Chris and me and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. This is where you can send your questions in, get a little shout out, and that is where you can get a whole lot of insight when it comes to me, Chris and Jimmy hitting your phones directly to your lines. So,

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