Cavs’ first meeting with J.B. Bickerstaff hints at regular season rotation: Wine and Gold Talk podcast

Takeaways:

• The Cavs are in a good place because of the work that J.B. Bickerstaff did while at the helm.
• Bickerstaff’s culture-building will be crucial for the Pistons’ resurgence.
• Max Strus is essential for the Cavs’ starting lineup.
• Dean Wade’s versatility makes him a key player for the Cavs, if he’s healthy and confident.
• Kenny Atkinson’s modern approach is a shift for the Cavs that they’re still adapting to.
• The team is still figuring out its rotation and chemistry.
• Ty Jerome’s ability to play multiple positions makes him a strong contender for the 11-man rotation, despite missing 80 regular season games last year.

Listen using the player below:

You can also listen using your preferred podcast app. Subscription information is below.

Subscribe and listen on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

The video version of the podcast is on YouTube as well.

Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Ethan Sands

What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of The Wine and Gold Talk podcast. Joining me all the way from Detroit. Chris Fedor, how are you doing, Chris, how was the trip up to Detroit? And who did you get to talk to when you got to make your little trip up there?

Chris (00:29.314)

Man, I’m doing great. I’ve enjoyed my time here in Detroit. Got in yesterday, got a nice meal. Woke up this morning, went for a walk along the water. I am basically at a hotel. It is the General Motors headquarters and there’s a hotel basically on top of it. And this hotel overlooks the water and you can see right to Canada. So right across from me, very visible.

is Windsor. So if I had more time this afternoon, I could have gone to Canada. Why not? That opportunity would have been there. I had my passport with me. But I’ve been enjoying my time in Detroit. This is the first time, Ethan, that I’m staying in this particular hotel very close to the water. Most of the time when I’m here, I’m closer to the arena, closer to Camerica Park, closer to the shopping.

Hudson yards that Dan Gilbert’s fingerprints are all over with the revitalization of, downtown Detroit. but for the first time I decided to stay at this hotel, because the rate was much more affordable and the scenery is just spectacular. Like I said, that walk that I went on earlier this morning was absolutely wonderful. And people were just sitting by the water staring into Canada, looking at the, the Caesar’s casino. That’s right across the water.

in Windsor. So I’ve enjoyed my time here in Detroit. It’s a nice and easy drive. I made it in what, like two hours and 10 minutes or something like

Ethan Sands (02:06.86)

You were zooming, you were zooming on the track. Okay, I like to see it. We’ll get in.

Chris (02:08.558)

I was man. I had places to be. I had dinner to go to.

Ethan Sands (02:15.726)

And we’ll get into that dinner and a little bit more into Dan Gilbert and some of the things that the Cavs got to do When they were in Detroit a little bit later, but we got to get into this ballgame, right Detroit Pistons Cleveland Cavaliers third preseason game of the season I mean, it’s really really interesting when you talk about the storylines that are underlying this game obviously, we know it’s preseason so it’s

Not getting too much taken into account based on regular season stuff coming up, but it was the first time that the Cavs got to see J.B. Bickerstaff in a different jersey, a different uniform, and different all those different things, logos, emblems, whatever you want to call it. It was the first time they got to see J.B. Bickerstaff in a different light. Chris, I know you got to go on this trip so you can talk to J.B. so you can watch him play with a little bit more

of his schematics put into the Pistons. What did you take away so far?

Chris (03:18.05)

My primary takeaway is this, Ethan, the Cavs and JB Bickerstaff are where they should be. I think if you look back at, at JB’s tenure with the Cavs, you can’t tell that story without talking about his, his fingerprints being all over the resurgence. because at the time that he took over for John Beeline, who was completely out of place in the NBA.

The organization was not what it is right now. You know, and it wasn’t only a talent infusion that allowed the Cavs to get to this point where they are right now, which is a legitimate contending team in the Eastern Conference. One of the four best teams probably in the Eastern Conference, depending on how you rank those. It was JB instilling a culture. It was JB putting in a defense first identity.

It was JB getting them to buy in to the roles that they were going to play in the resurgence of this team. was, you know, JB and the things that he preached on a daily basis, toughness, togetherness, competitiveness, sacrifice, all those different things were paramount to the Cavs getting out of the rebuild. Because we’ve talked about this, Ethan. There are a lot of teams throughout the course of NBA history.

that shift into these rebuilds and they have a bunch of high draft picks and it would seem like they continue to add young talent. And guess what? They don’t ever make it out of that rebuild. They don’t get to the point where the Cavs are at currently. So again, I think you hear appreciation from various players and members of the Cavs organization over the last couple of days for what JB meant.

to get them to the point where they are right now. They don’t do that without JB. We can’t just assume that they would have done that with somebody other than JB because we’ve seen other instances across the NBA that the wrong coach in a rebuild doesn’t allow a team to get out of that rebuild and have a resurgence. So I think there’s a level of appreciation from

Chris (05:43.16)

various members of this organization, including the players, for what JB meant to their success over the past four years. But I think there’s also an understanding of, if we were going to take the next step as an organization, we were going to need somebody who brings a different kind of skill set, who brings different strengths to the table. And to them, that’s Kenny Atkinson.

He’s more modern with his philosophies. He’s more modern with his concepts and his principles. He is viewed as a better X’s and O’s man, a better tactician. So when you get into a seven game playoff series and decisions have to come really, really quick and offense has to be diverse and less predictable and all those different things that matter that can potentially swing a series. The Cavs belief is that they have a better guy.

for the playoff chess match. In saying that, if you flip it over to the other side, what does Detroit need right now? We’re not talking about playoffs. We’re not talking about 40 wins. We’re not talking about 50 wins. They need somebody who is going to do the things that J.B. Bicker staff has been great at throughout the course of his career. Establish a culture. Get these guys to buy into a certain style. I know it’s just pre-season.

And I know that, you know, the Cavs weren’t at their best tonight, Ethan, but those were some feisty dudes out there for the Pistons that were playing really, really hard. They were fighting through screens that were being really handsy on defense and physical on defense. So I’m not saying that JB is going to take the Pistons from the worst team in the NBA over the last two years and turn them into a playoff team overnight, but you can see signs.

of the things that JB preaches and you can see the Detroit Pistons buying into those particular concepts. Do they have enough talent for it to matter? We’ll just have to wait and see. But I think the things that JB does well, the things that JB does the best, that’s what Detroit needs. The areas where he comes up short, the perceived weaknesses of JB as a coach.

Chris (08:03.734)

Kenny Atkinson seemingly fills in those gaps. So as I said, I think JB is where he should be. And I think the Cavs are where they should be with a different coach, a different philosophy, more modern concepts and principles and all those kinds of things.

Ethan Sands (08:23.458)

Yeah, and I mean, even JB Bickerstaff himself said that the Detroit Pistons are a work in progress. They will not be a finished product and they don’t expect to be, is a quote that he gave earlier this week, right? He is a guy that knows what he’s working with, to be very frank. He knows that this is a younger group that’s gotten veterans this season that are gonna help out. Tobias Herritt, Malik Beasley, those guys are gonna play their roles when they need to, but…

It’s also bringing up this young core of guys that they’ve got to try and bring together at a higher caliber, higher level. Chris, I wanted to talk about those guys that they played tonight, right? The Cavs and Kenny Atkinson talked before the game about playing their starters a good amount, right? And they did. Majority of the starters played 20 minutes or more tonight. But for the Detroit Pistons, it was quite the opposite.

their starters only played eight minutes for the entirety of the game. Can you just walk through what you saw and how the Cavs kind of adjusted their game throughout or if they played with the same mindset that they had going in when they saw the rotation shifting against them?

Chris (09:40.03)

First of all, Ethan, I think we can stop with one thing. This whole idea that some people have created in their mind that somebody other than Max Struz is going to start at Small Forward because whichever fan it is wants more defense or more size or a more traditional Small Forward or however you want to phrase it. Get that out of your mind.

Max Struce is going to start for this team at Small Forward. Max Struce is very, very important to the success of this team. Max Struce brings the starting five together in a different kind of way than Karis Levert can. Or a different kind of way than Isaac Okoro can. So yeah, we can talk about the things that Karis does well, and we can talk about the things that Isaac Okoro does well. What this starting group needs if they’re gonna go with Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, and they are…

They’re committed to the two big lineup. Kenny Atkinson really, really likes the big lineup. That’s been the primary focus throughout the course of summer camp, throughout the course of training camp, throughout their time together in the preseason. In the first two preseason games, the focus has been primarily on the big lineup because that’s how committed Kenny is to making Jarrett and Evan work together. So if you’re going to play those guys together and they are,

You need somebody with Max Drews’ skill set. That’s what brings that starting five together. Movement, spacing, gravity, three-point shooting, volume, the attention that he commands, cutting, all those different things. There’s a reason why statistically Max Drews was one of the most impactful players that the Cavs had last year. Because the things that he does well, that’s what this offense, that’s what this starting lineup

needs. Even though he didn’t shoot it as well as maybe he would want to. Even though he didn’t put up gaudy stats, he is an impactful player, especially around the core four. And look, you don’t want to make too much out of preseason or anything along those lines, but you can tell when Karis Laverde is in there or Isaac Kikoro is there flanking the core four. It just looks different. Just feels different.

Chris (12:03.5)

doesn’t have the same offensive ceiling. It doesn’t have the same diversity offensively. There’s not the same movement and all that kind of stuff. So we can get that out of our head. If Max Struce is healthy for October 23rd against the Toronto Raptors and all of my sources say that he is expected to be available on opening night, although nobody wants to say that because he could have a setback and because we’re still a week away.

from the season opener, the belief is that Max is going to be in the lineup on opening night. Same thing when it comes to Sam Merrill. The belief is that he is going to be healthy enough to play on opening night. And if this was the regular season as opposed to the preseason, the belief is from my sources that both guys would be in the lineup. So the Cavs are just trying to be cautious with both of them because of the calendar and how favorable the calendar is for them.

But the other thing that stood out to me, Ethan, is that we know the 11th. Like, you don’t want to make sweeping conclusions. You don’t want to make declarations based on the preseason. But everything that Kenny Atkinson has said, Ethan, over the last couple of days is, these final two preseason games are going to be a tune-up for the regular season. It’s going to give me an opportunity to really hone in on what the opening night rotation is going to be.

I’m going to give those guys the bulk of the minutes. The 11 were pretty clear in the first three quarters tonight against Detroit. And I think they’re going to be pretty clear in the first three quarters Friday night against the Chicago Bulls. The two guys that didn’t play tonight, Max Struce and Sam Merrill, and then the nine that you would most anticipate. The only question I think we have now, Ethan, when it comes to the rotation is like, who is 10, 11?

and who is going to be the guy where their minutes fluctuate the most. And if I had to guess right now, there’s still some things that I want to figure out. There’s still some questions that I want to ask. But 10, 11 to me, if I had to guess right now, George Neang and Tyger.

Ethan Sands (14:21.582)

Yeah, and I mean, that’s something that we’ve kind of been inching towards for a decent period now because Kenny Atkinson’s been kind of saying he didn’t want to give it away or saying he’s still working through it and all these types of things. But I agree with you, Chris. Tonight was really one of the bigger moments to figure out that 11. And I agree with you that Sam Mero and Max Truist are going to be in that. Obviously, Max Truist was out tonight with a right hip contusion, Sam Mero with a sore right wrist.

Two things that we have heard throughout the day was that they had good workouts today. Maybe not as much contact or no contact at all, but they were getting in full speed reps and being able to do things that they weren’t a couple of days ago, especially. So I think it’s just really important to note, especially touch on what you said. Max Deuce is a pivotal portion of this team, especially of the starting lineup, but he’s going to start.

Like there’s not a question anymore, right? And the other thing that I wanted to touch on briefly was how Ty Jerome and Dean Wade have played out of the coming off the bench and especially with Dean Wade being a kind of mix and match piece when it comes to being a connector, right? Kenny Atkinson talked about George Nguyen being a connector in multiple different facets and how that’s happened to me. Dean Wade is the glue for so many different lineups that Kenny Atkinson is going to be using, right?

He’s going to be the foreman in the stretch lineup. He could be a if they want to put him at the small forward for a big lineup, that would be a big line of six, 10, two, seven footers. Right. And then you think about just where he midges and matches when it comes to the rotation pieces, especially tonight. Dean Wade was one of the players that was in with the starting group, technically, and then also with the bench rotation group. Right. So what have you seen from both Ty

And from Dean Wade, for me, it really does feel like Ty Jerome is going to fill in when Donovan Mitchell doesn’t need or might need a set up point guard, right? Because we know that he does better with a table setter and Ty Jerome is a pass first point guard. And that helps out Donovan Mitchell in all the sets that they’re going to run as well. But he’s also shown that he’s been able to shoot the ball, especially tonight. That’s something that we got to see a little bit more.

Chris (16:46.616)

Kenny Atkinson feels like in some ways, Ethan, Kenny Atkinson feels like me of the previous two years when it comes to talking about Dean Wade. Like for the last two years, I have been trying every way possible and on as many different platforms as possible to sing the praises of Dean Wade, the basketball player.

And that to me is what Kenny Atkinson is doing. Every time, like any kind of conversation about Dean Wade comes, Kenny lights up. Tonight, pregame, I asked Kenny about where he feels Dean fits best positionally for this team, because I’m trying to get an idea of he thinks he’s primarily a four man. If he does believe he’s capable of playing the three in certain lineups. He like beamed.

and said, he can play two through five, depending on the matchup, depending on the team that we’re playing against. And then tonight we’re talking to Kenny Postgame and Serena asks him a question about the run that the Cavs got off to a terrible start tonight.

They just didn’t have the energy. They didn’t have the focus. were throwing ball all over the place. They couldn’t put the ball in the basket. They were complaining to the referees constantly. So it just wasn’t a good performance all around, especially at the beginning of the first quarter, the beginning of the third quarter. But at the end of the first quarter, they went on like a 20 to five run and Serena asked specifically about the 20 to five run and what went well during that stretch. What do think Kenny said?

Dean Wade was out there. That’s what he said. He said that second unit really gave us boost led by Dean Wade and Isaac Okora, but it was Dean specifically. I don’t know. I think he was like a plus 16 during that stretch or something like that. So you could just see the kind of impact that Dean was making when he was out there. And Kenny made sure to point it out. And I think Kenny being an analytics guy,

Chris (19:02.178)

Kenny being somebody who makes a lot of decisions based on not just what the numbers say, because he’s going to go with his gut. He’s going to go with his feel, but he does lean into numbers a lot more than JB Bickerstaff did in the past. And the numbers love Dean Wade as an impact defender, as an impact player, as a net rating type guy. So everything says that the Cavs

are a very, very good basketball team at both ends of the floor when Dean Wade is out there. And every opportunity that Kenny has gotten to talk about the depth of this team, the rotations, the bench, he has singled out Dean Wade. He has gassed him up, as the kids like to say. So I thought it was pretty interesting to me that during the Cavs best stretch tonight,

Dean Wade was out there and Kenny certainly noticed and other people inside the organization noticed that as well. When it comes to Ty, like to me, Ethan, the most important aspect of tonight’s game for Ty was the fact that Kenny played him alongside Darius and he played him alongside Donovan. And we’ve talked about this a number of different times on the podcast. Ty Jerome is a two position player.

And that’s going to give him a better opportunity to get consistent playing time. And I do think Kenny likes the fact that that Ty can play the one or the two. He can play on the ball off the ball. He can play with Darius without Darius with Donovan.

without Donovan and to me that was Kenny just kind of experimenting, tinkering, seeing how it looks with Donovan and Ty together, how it looks with Darius Ty together, what kinds of other pieces they would need in those kinds of lineups. So I do think the fact that Kenny did that tonight was very, very purposeful.

Ethan Sands (21:11.534)

remember writing an article at the end of last season where it was like, if Dean Wade is healthy, then this team can contend. And everybody jumped on my back was like, Dean Wade? Like he averages five points a game or whatever it was. And I was like, well, if you look at the advanced metrics and like all of these different things, and I know people that are gonna hear this podcast and say the same thing.

He was one of three tonight. He had five points. He had five rebounds and one assist, one block and two fouls. But he was a plus 20. Like, he was a plus 20. And this is a conversation that we continually have. I remember last year, I think he like had a high of like a plus 34 or something. Like last year, he didn’t have that great of a stat line, but it’s the spacing, right? It’s the defensive effort.

Chris (21:37.784)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (22:06.85)

The amount of switching that I saw with Isaac’s coral Dean way whether it was Evan Moley or Jared Allen on the floor was Spectacular because you understand they said I don’t care who is in front of me I can switch them with D way and feel safe about doing it right and the other players that had high plus minuses tonight when it came to a night that the Cavs looked sloppy and playing against like

Chris (22:22.124)

Red.

Ethan Sands (22:34.498)

Chris said after the game, the Detroit Pistons JV team and still lost was Ty Jerome, who was plus 20 or plus 12. Sorry. He had eight points and was just two of three from the field and one of one from three point range. Right. Then from the starters, the only two people that were in the positive for plus minus was Jared Allen and Donovan Mitchell, and they were plus twos.

I mean, tonight it was very clear to me, right? Jared Allen looked like he was the best player on the floor. He was able to just be efficient in everything he was doing. He was a defensive monster. The one block that he had was just a knockout. And then obviously you have Evan Mobley who has four blocks on the side on a down night compared to what we’ve been expecting from him. But like you don’t lose the defensive aspect. That’s the biggest thing, right? That’s what Kenny Higginson has been saying.

Chris (23:27.097)

Hmm.

Ethan Sands (23:32.734)

If the Cavs are going to be great, they have to lean on that defensive identity. Sure. There were spurts and all these different things where the Detroit Pistons were taking advantage and there were some miscues on the defensive end where they got open shots and corner threes and all these other things. I know Isaac Acora was sitting on the bench or or playing and like, dang, if I would have just hit these open threes like they’re doing right now. Woo. But I just think this offense is continuing to get its footing.

And like Chris said at the beginning of the podcast, Max Drews out there changes the game. And Caris LaVert is also playing at a three and playing with the starters is completely different from the role that Caris LaVert has been used to. One, two, Caris LaVert said last year that he is used to, comfortable, and is happy with doing something consistently. That was being the sixth man for the cap.

This year it could be a little different depending on how the rotations and things go. But, Carouselvert, when he’s doing the same thing over and over again, that’s when he catches into a rhythm. That’s when he gets into his comfort zone. Tonight, being thrown into the starting lineup, Kenny Atkinson was like, we’re gonna see what you’re gonna do and we’ll go from there. But Chris, just overall, what are you taking away?

Chris (24:55.864)

So going back to Dean, the other thing that I want to say on this is that, you know, at some point, Ethan, it’s not a coincidence. It’s not a coincidence based on how the Cavs play when Dean is out there. And at some point, it’s not just a byproduct of him being fortunate to play alongside certain lineups. You know what I mean? Like at some point, it’s just him and he’s an impactful dude. And it’s hard for people to see it.

because they look at the box score and they’re like, what the hell did he do tonight? You know what saying? But like everybody has a different role on this team and Dean plays to his role very, very well. You know, my primary takeaway tonight, Ethan, was mostly about the rotation coming into focus. And I also thought it was relatively telling and look, I know that they just had to use certain guys to finish out games or whatever.

But I thought it was relatively telling that George Niang was out there with the Cleveland charge. He was out there with Craig Porter Jr. He was out there with JT Thor, Luke Travers, Jalen Tyson, guys who could certainly spend some time with the Cleveland charge. JT Thor and Luke Travers on two-way contracts.

Jalen Tyson, somebody who Kenny Atkinson has mentioned, look, if there’s not a pathway to consistent playing time for him, that’s something that we’re going to consider. and, Jalen Tyson, you know, when it comes to meaningful preseason minutes, this, this in the first three games, he just hasn’t gotten them. So it tells me that despite the fact that the Cavs like Tyson, they drafted him 20th overall for a reason.

Despite the fact that Kenny Atkinson and other teammates have talked about the positive first impression that Jalen has made throughout the course of training camp and when he’s gotten a bigger opportunity, he’s taken advantage of it. Despite those things.

Chris (27:05.6)

It just feels like there’s more comfort with the more known commodities that already exist on this roster as opposed to Jalen because he just hasn’t gotten the meaningful minutes that point to him being part of this rotation on opening night. And again, we’ve talked about this. He can play himself into the rotation. Things can happen throughout the course of the season.

that give him an opportunity and he could capitalize it, capitalize on it. And he could, you know, start cutting into the playing time of, somebody who’s going to be in the 10, 11 man rotation on opening night. But it just doesn’t feel likely when it comes to, to Jaylen, despite how well he has performed at various points. He is a rookie. He is caught in a numbers game. And he’s on a team.

that is coming off an Eastern Conference semi-finals appearance that brought back 13 of the 14 NBA players from that particular roster. It’s just going to be hard for him in such a short period of time, this early in his career, to make his mark in the NBA. So those were my primary takeaways from tonight. Like I don’t want to get caught up in the turnovers and…

you know, some of the other sloppiness that we saw from this team, because I think some of that, Ethan, you can just chalk up to it’s preseason game number three. These guys are ready for the regular season. They got to play better. they got to have more focus, more attention to detail, all those different things. But, but I just, I don’t get caught up in final results and scores this time of year. Although and three in the pre-season is not really the way that Kenny Atkinson probably wants to start.

is tenure with the Cavs.

Ethan Sands (29:04.738)

I mean, not at all, not at all, right? I mean, for me, it was just funny to me how the Detroit Pistons played, right? The up temple style, like spreading the floor, getting the ball up the court quickly and taking corner threes. Tobias Harris, I think had two threes to open up the game. They were like so quick and so early in the shot clock. I was like, is this the Cavs being out?

played by their new system better than they’re playing currently? Like obviously they’re still working on it, still getting to know the system, all these different things. It’s just looking at the little things that we can point out too. But I wanted to get back to one quick thing before we wrapped up, right? We wanna see what Isaac Okoro is going to do. We wanna see what Ty Jerome is gonna do.

We want to see what Craig Porter Jr. is going to do, but we’re talking a little bit about the kind of controversies that we’ve heard from our subscribers, from our fans, and all these other things. Jaylen Tyson as well is in this conversation. JT, Jaylen Tyson, and Craig Porter Jr. have shown a little bit over the preseason that they might be pressing a little bit, right? When you’re trying to earn a spot.

rather than when Craig Porter Jr. last year was not expecting to get minutes, was expected to spend time in the G League on a two-way contract, then earn a standard contract in the NBA. He looks like he’s trying to earn that spot and say that I’m good enough to be the backup point guard, right? It feels to me that he’s been pressing just a little bit. Jalen Tyson, there is moments that you see that as well, right? Jalen Tyson in the first two games was the leading rebounder, right?

Chris (30:33.379)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (30:56.396)

something that he’s been heartbroken and say that he is going to bring from his college days to the NBA, he’s done that. But when it comes to scoring the basketball, something that he was so good at it, Cal, it feels like he’s pressing. Like, I remember the first game in preseason, you could see how hard he was trying to get his first NBA bucket in the preseason, right? That’s kind of carried over when the offense hasn’t played to his liking during the preseason.

when he’s been running with these rotation guys. So I think you mentioned the Dane Tyson piece. For me, it’s the Craig Porter Jr. piece. I know I was so high on him last year because of how he played, because of what he earned his spot. But this year, it really does feel like he’s going to have to take a back seat, more so a role that he might have had last year that he got pushed forward to the top of something on the backcourt when it comes to the backup rotation.

But I just think this team is going to have to figure itself out and is going to continue to learn about itself throughout the regular season. So things can change, but the conversations of Craig Porter Jr. should be the backup point guard because he’s been here a little bit longer than Ty Jerome. Don’t really sit well with me, right? The offense that they’re running, the defense, like Chris said, being able to play two positions rather than Craig Porter Jr. just being a point guard. Those are going to hurt.

Craig Porter Jr.’s chances of being able to get more minutes. But we’ll have to see what Kenny Atkinson thinks and if he’ll be able to get minutes depending on whatever happens throughout the season.

Chris (32:37.218)

Here’s the primary problem that I think Craig has when it comes to this current roster makeup. There is a belief that the Cavs do not need a backup point guard from the outset. Look, if something happens, Darius Garland fractures his jaw, Donovan Mitchell is dealing with knee issues, whatever the case may be. If they get into a situation where the status quo changes, all right. But coming into the year,

There is a belief that they don’t need a backup point guard. Even Ty Jerome. They don’t technically need him. They like him. They like his fit next to Darius, next to Donovan. He has the size to play the two. has enough versatility and the kind of skill set that allows him to better play off the ball than somebody like Craig. Especially when it comes to Ty as a capable outside shooter and a threat.

You know, when it comes to Craig Porter Jr. So many of these defenders are just going to go under screens and sag off of him and stuff. He’s not the same kind of threat that Ty is. But, the primary problem is that the way that the Cavs roster is built, they can play Donovan Mitchell at backup point guard.

Chris (33:58.094)

He can run the second unit. No problem running the second unit. So like the thing that theoretically Craig Porter Jr. is on the roster for the Cavs just have other more capable options than him. And it doesn’t mean that he’s a bad player. And it doesn’t mean that that he shouldn’t get playing time at some point during an 82 game regular season. But we’re talking about opening night, October 23rd against the Raptors.

The Cavs might go into that game and say, you know what, we’re just going to stagger Donovan and Darius. We’re going to keep one of those guys on the floor at all times. And whoever happens to be on the floor is going to run point guard. And not every team is built like that. Right. But, but the Cavs are, I had one member of the organization say to me earlier today, they’re like, we feel pretty good about four or five running the show. If that’s what it has to be. And rightfully so.

You know, so many people talk about last year, Ethan, and they talk about, you know, the run that the Cavs went on when Darius was injured and Evan was injured. And they talk about how good the offense looked with Donovan running the show.

If that’s the case, if that’s how you feel about it, then it makes sense that the calves would probably feel pretty similar to that way as well.

Ethan Sands (35:24.456)

And we’re still a week away from the regular season kickoff, tipoff, whatever you want to call it, right? And this is a team that still has a last preseason game against the Chicago Bulls in Chicago on Friday, but there’s still more to learn, right? They’re not pressing, right? They want to be playing regular season basketball. That is where we’re getting to, Chris. And I don’t know about you,

can sense it with this team a little bit that they want to be playing regular season basketball. I’m ready for the regular season to tip off too. Ready to get going. But we’ll just have to wait a couple more days. Seven to be exact. But with that being said.

Chris (35:54.094)

you

Chris (36:06.294)

Yeah, they also have some things that they got to figure out to Ethan. mean, so many of the players talked about it following tonight’s game against Detroit, the spread lineup that they use tonight in the preseason where they went with Evan Mobley by himself at center surrounded by four guys or Jared Allen by himself at center surrounded by four guys. Darius said earlier tonight, that was the first time that the Cavs used it. That particular lineup.

They talked about it. They had discussed it amongst coaches about how it was going to look and what components were needed and things like that. But in a game situation, that was not used in game one. That was not used in preseason game two. That was not used in the inter squad scrimmage that they did the other day. That was not used in a lot of these things that they have done behind the scenes throughout the course of training camp.

So some of the lineups that they use tonight in the third preseason game, it was the first time that they actually use them. So there are some things that they have to figure out within those. There’s some chemistry that they need to continue to gain. There’s some understanding about how players fit with one another in some of those different looks. So the more time you get on the floor, the more you can workshop those things, figure out what works, what doesn’t work and get more answers heading into October 23rd.

that’s going to be a good thing. So yeah, I mean, I think mentally they’re probably sitting here saying, bring on the regular season. But if we’re being honest about it, the things that they still need to work through as a team and some of the things that they were saying in the locker room after tonight’s game, they could definitely use Friday. It will be beneficial for them.

Ethan Sands (37:58.326)

And I think that not only preseason, right? The early regular season. Kenny Atkinson has also talked about it being a process, getting adjusted. They will use the first couple of games to get adjusted to figure each other out. And especially if Max Truce isn’t able to play in Friday’s last preseason game, he’ll have to get reacclimated as well. So we’ll just have to wait and see what they do and how they play, especially against the Bulls. But even going forward, looking at the Toronto Raptors,

Chris (38:04.109)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (38:28.288)

and then when the Pistons come to Cleveland in the regular season for the home opener on October 25th. But with that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. But remember to become a Cavs Insider and interact with Chris, me, and Jimmy by subscribing to Subtext. Sign up for a 14 day free trial or visit cleveland.com backslash Cavs and click on the blue bar at the top of the page. If you don’t like it, that’s fine.

All you have to do is text the word stop. It’s easy. But we can tell you that the people who sign up, stick around because this is the best way to get insider coverage on the cast from me, Chris and Jimmy. This isn’t just our podcast. It’s your podcast. And the only way to have your voice heard is through subtext. Y’all be safe. We out.