Is Jarrett Allen the Cavs’ long-term answer at center? Wine and Gold Talk podcast

Takeaways:

• Jarrett Allen is considered the most indispensable player for the Cavs.
• The Cavs’ success is significantly tied to Jarrett Allen’s presence on the court.
• Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen’s pairing is crucial for rim protection. The Cavs can be the number one defense in the NBA with Allen and Mobley together.
• Kenny Atkinson aims to enhance offensive spacing while maintaining defensive integrity.
• There are concerns about the trade-offs between offensive gains and defensive losses with Allen off the floor.

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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Ethan Sands

What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. I’m joined once again, Chris Fedor. Chris, how are you doing on this fine Sunday?

Chris (00:28.61)

I’m doing great, man. How are you?

Ethan Sands (00:30.342)

Doing well, doing well, doing some statistical deep dives on this Sunday, trying to figure out where this team is at and who’s going to be important, all the good jazz. And for me, the conversation continues to come back to the two pairings that the Cavs have, right? Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland, as well as Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen.

For me, we already talked about how important Donovan Mitchell is to this team, a top 15 player in the NBA, also one of the best shooting guards in the league. Now I want to go to the other pairing where it talks about Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen. We talked about Evan Mobley, how impactful a jump for him will be for this Cavs offense, already being in the DPOY conversation since his second year in the league. But Jarrett Allen, I feel like he has been the glue to this offense, to this defense.

that especially when we look back to last season when the Cavs were dealing with so many injuries, stability issues, it was a constant that Jarrett Allen was going to be there up until the end of the season when he was obviously out with a pierced rib. Chris, just first and foremost, what are your thoughts on Jarrett Allen, his impact and his importance for this team?

Chris (01:44.002)

Yeah, look Ethan, I’ve said this a few different times. There are multiple people inside the organization that believe he is their most indispensable player. And there are multiple people inside this organization that believe the trajectory of this thing really started to change when they traded for Jarrett, when they stole him from the Brooklyn Nets as part of that James Harden deal. He gave them an identity at both ends of the floor. He’s an elite pick and roll big on the offensive end.

He creates vertical spacing. He’s a lob threat. He’s coming off a career year offensively where he continued to add different things to his game. Highly efficient. He can score around the rim with both hands. He’s been able to knock down this mid-range jumper over the last couple of years. And then defensively, I had him on my second team all defensive team last year.

That’s how impactful I thought he was. That’s how important I think he is to the Cavs success defensively over the years. So I think Jarrett is not flashy. Jarrett doesn’t get the big headlines and that’s fine. I think he likes it that way, but he is incredibly important to the team’s success. And the numbers bear it out, Ethan. Over the last three years, the Cavs are 125 and 76 with

with Jarrett in the lineup and they’re just 18 and 27 without him. You know, for the last couple of years, because of how reliant they are on what he does at both ends of the floor, they cannot function at the same level when he’s off the.

Ethan Sands (03:26.052)

Yeah, and I mean, he’s been integral for both sides of the ball. He’s a guy that, like you said, indispensable. JB Biggerstav last season said he feels better going to sleep at night having Jarrett Allen on the floor. Obviously, that kind of came back to bite him in the butt when Jarrett Allen was not out there for the playoffs. I mean, so I went into some different statistical categories to figure out where Jarrett Allen ranks in centers.

across the NBA and also especially in the Eastern Conference because your good friend, friendofcleland.com, Brian Winhurst, said that Jarrett Allen is the fifth best center in the Eastern Conference. What do you take on that, first and foremost?

Chris (04:09.846)

Well, I’d have to give that a little bit more thought, I think, I think Ethan, he’s pretty much right there. I don’t know if he’s fourth. I don’t know if he’s fifth. I don’t know if he’s sixth, but he’s right there as a top five in the range of a top five center in the Eastern conference. He’s a guy who should continue to get all star consideration, for the kind of impact that he has. And I think that’s the biggest thing about Jarrett. You know, it’s not about.

points per game, it’s not about rebounds per game, it’s not about the counting numbers. It’s about his possession to possession impact that he makes on winning basketball. He’s been like that his entire career. It is not a surprise that when the Cavs got Jarrett, when they were able to trade for him, and they still, to this day, they still can’t believe that they only had to give up a late first round pick basically to get him.

Like there are people inside the organization that still laugh and talk about that. Like, wait, we got him for a late first round pick? Seriously? Like that’s what happened? so I mean, like, if you just look at the impact that he has on winning, this is, this is one of the best teams in the Eastern conference, top four team in the Eastern conference. And Jarrett is at the center of all of that. So I do think he’s borderline top five in the Eastern conference.

It’s hard to come up with too many guys off the top of my head that are significantly better or more impactful than Jarrett. Obviously he’s not in Bede. I think we all understand that he’s not in Bede. I’d probably have Bam over him to be perfectly honest with you. Cat, are we listing Cat as a center? Probably. I’d have Cat over him. I think it’s very, very close between Jarrett and Miles Turner, honestly.

I think it’s incredibly close. I’d give the edge to Kristaps Porzingis over Jarrett, but I think he’s in that conversation. Like the only one, well, only two that I would say are clear cut, better and more impactful than Jarrett. And this is no slight to anybody else in this mix, but I think Bam is…

Chris (06:27.998)

Absolutely incredible for Miami. think he’s so involved in everything that they do at both ends of the floor that you have to give him his props and then of course, Embiid. But aside from that, like I think there’s a real healthy debate between Jarrett and some of these other guys. And I think that’s a really, really good place for him to be.

Ethan Sands (06:48.758)

And that’s pretty much the list that Wendy had too. had Joelle, Bam, Kat, Kristops, and then Jarrett. So it’s crazy that I didn’t give you that list first and foremost, and you’re able to rattle those off in that category. Obviously, like you said, Miles Turner is definitely in that conversation. That was a matchup that I was looking forward to when they played the Pacers a couple days ago.

I also was interested to see how Dean Wade was gonna fare in that competition when it came to playing him at the small ball five against Miles Turner, who we know to be one of the top 10 centers, especially in the Eastern Conference. So I think it’s definitely something that we’ll have to keep an eye on going forward because those two might battle it out for that fifth slot in the East for the center position. But some of the other stats that I had been looking at,

Chris (07:20.162)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (07:38.258)

For the center position when it came to Jarrett Allen and him falling into these categories top ten centers in true shooting percentage Top ten in screener mobile defense top ten finishers and LeBron for the 2023 2024 season, of course top ten in rim points saved and then top ten in screener rim defense, so not only is Jarrett Allen we’ve talked about this

already right like he’s impacting both ends of the floor at a high percentage. Chris you mentioned that that little midi hook that he has a little the little jumper that he’s got and it’s crazy to see how he falls into these different categories because you’re not expecting him to have these kind of numbers when it comes to the offensive end in the floor right and that’s why people are like my god why is Kenny Atkinson potentially thinking maybe joking about Jarrett Allen taking more shots this year.

Chris (08:09.908)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (08:36.665)

maybe taking more threes this year. Obviously it’s all hypothetical until we see it happen, but the numbers don’t lie when it comes to the potential for them to spread the floor, even with Evan Mobley off the court, right? And I think that’s the biggest thing, right? Because we’ve talked about that spread offense, that five out offense that they want to run a lot this season under Atkinson and how mostly it’s going to be with Evan Mobley at the five. I think Kenny Atkinson wants to push Jarrett Allen to be able to do that as well.

even if it’s not drawing the same gravity or attention that Evan Mobley should this year. What do you think about those dualities of those players both in the five out lineup?

Chris (09:17.314)

Well, I totally understand this idea of give Evan more space, give the offense more space, put Evan at the five and surround him by a bunch of shooting. It is logical. And I think that helps Evan. And you saw it in the, in the series against Boston, where he was able to get the ball on the move. He was able to attack the defense on the move. Like a lot of the ways that he was being used in that series against Boston and the ways that

he was being effective for the team, probably don’t exist to the same level if he shares the floor with Jarrett, right? So I think the idea of Evan surrounded by four shooters is really, really exciting for Evan. And I think it’s really, really exciting for the Cavs. But as I said, like, you have to be careful. It is a delicate thing when it comes to Kenny Atkinson and how he’s going to deploy this, because you have to be really, really careful.

about taking Jarrett off the floor for too long of stretches because he is so integral to everything that they do. So the idea of Evan at the five surrounded by four shooters is really, good. But like how many minutes can you play that throughout the course of a 48 minute game? Because if you want to go that direction, you have to understand that that means Jarrett’s not on the floor.

That means you don’t have the same level of rim protection. That means you don’t have the same level of defense. That means you don’t have the same level of rebounding. That means you don’t have the same ability as a team to devastate teams with pick and roll stuff. Because Jarrett is one of the elite pick and roll bigs in the NBA. He’s one of the leaders in screen assists and screen assists that lead to points in the entire NBA. And he’s been that way.

Basically since he blossomed into this guy that he is So I do think it’s understandable that Kenny wants to use that I think it’s understandable that fans want to see that and there are people inside the organization there are players that say hey like You know the spacing that we can create when Evans at the five surrounded by four shooters like It’s really really enticing that gives us a different dimension that we want to do offensively

Chris (11:41.308)

but I just don’t think, I don’t think that’s always, how can I phrase this? I don’t think that will ever consistently be their best five man lineup. Let’s put it that way. I think consistently their best five man lineup in some way will have Jarrett Allen in it. When you talk about net rating, when you talk about offense and defense. So I just think the Cavs have to be careful about how much they go to that particular look.

Throughout the course of the game and it’s the same thing when it comes to splitting up Evan Mobley and Jarrett and putting Jarrett as the true five man Because what makes the Cavs unique and what makes them different and what makes them special is those two guys together still at this point

Ethan Sands (12:29.338)

Yeah, because that rim protection is just nasty, right? You throw Jarrett or Evan out of that context and you don’t have the same thing Dean Wade talked about. And he said, you can make a mistake and know that you still have two bigs behind you that are going to be able to pick up your slack. And there’s a different confidence in that. And I think Jarrett and Evan have both, both matured as a grouping, as a pairing when it comes to not relying heavily on each other, but trusting that they can have each other’s backs.

Chris (12:33.206)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (12:59.024)

Because before last season, felt like that Jarrett and Evan and Jarrett even talked about this a little bit last year, how he would go onto the court with Evan Moe would be like, well, I don’t have to do too much. Evan’s still out there. Like, if I don’t do something, Evan’s going to get my back. But like knowing that those two have each other’s back, but they’re not relying on each other. So they’re still going to be able to go get their offense and defense at a high caliber. It’s something that’s going to make this offense and defense so much more.

I want to say potent, right? And the other thing that you mentioned was what Kenny Atkinson is trying to do with pairings and trying to put people together, that five out lineup, right? You had, you got probably Evan Mobley, Dean Wade, if Max Struz is healthy, Max Struz, and then you got Darius and Donovan more than likely. So there’s still the defensive, like kind of figuring it out when it comes to the, at the point of attack with them. Cause I don’t think Kenny Atkinson,

Chris (13:55.745)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (13:57.742)

not as of yet is comfortable putting Isaac Okoro in the three instead of Max for that spread out lineup. And like you mentioned with the net rating, right? The net rating might be different when it comes to the five out lineup, but the offensive rating might be a little bit higher just because of the amount of shots and how fast these guys are gonna be playing.

Chris (14:17.922)

Right, so I understand that thinking and I’m totally in agreement with you, but I brought this up on a recent podcast that I did with Nate Duncan from the Dunked On podcast.

We know that the Cavs can be the best defense in the NBA with Jarrett Allen and Evan Mobley together, even with a non-traditional backcourt, even with the limitations that they could have with some other individual defenders surrounding those guys. We have seen them be the best defense in the entire NBA. So my question is this, and this is what I continue to go back to.

The ceiling, like is the ceiling of what the Cavs can potentially be on the offensive end of the floor? Like is it number one in the NBA? Offensively?

I don’t know like how high it can go but like is there enough of a trade-off where you say you’re gaining enough offensively to go away from a look that makes you the best defense in the league? You know what I’m saying? Like if they take Jarrett and they split him and Evan Mobley up either in the short term throughout the course of games or in the long term

Because a lot of people are talking about split those guys up, make Evan the full time five. Like what does that get you offensively? Do you become the Celtics? Like, are you that level of dominant on the offense event? I don’t know. Probably not. I don’t think so. Like does that one move make the Cavs the best offense in the NBA? Like, I don’t think so. Do you become on the level of the Denver Nuggets?

Chris (16:15.883)

Probably not. Right. So like you start looking at these, you become the Indiana Pacers? Like, do you get on that level of offense? So all I continue to say, Ethan, is like, are the gains offensively enough to justify the slight step back that you take defensively? Because again, like I’ve seen it.

They have been the number one defense in the NBA with those two guys together. Can you tell me honestly that splitting them up and changing the equation, changing the spacing, changing all that kind of stuff creates the number one offense in the league creates a top five offense in the league. Like, what are we talking about with the ceiling? Let’s say they get to eighth, right? The eighth best offense right there in the top 10, but

Closer to ten than they are to one right? Is that enough of a gain offensively? Is that is that enough of a positive trade-off? That’s the question that I think everybody inside this front office continues to ask It’s like if we’re going to split them up. We have to be gaining considerably And I just don’t know that that there’s enough belief within this organization That the gains would outweigh the losses potentially

Ethan Sands (17:41.574)

Yeah. I mean, it’s really difficult to gauge, right? Like, and do you want to be some of those teams, right? Because that’s what, that’s what we keep coming back to. And I feel like we’ve had this conversation a couple of times on this podcast, right? The defense in the offense have to be great for this team to be great. Right. And that’s why Kenny Atkinson in his first training camp day one was like, we want to reiterate defense is still our identity. We’re just going to change some things on offense to increase that production. So.

Chris (18:06.754)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (18:11.3)

If you take away Jarrett Allen and put Evan Mobley at the five, like we’re doing this. Let me explain why we’re doing this. This conversation is happening to show people how important Jarrett Allen is to this team. How much we want to understand that Jarrett Allen, who could be a trading piece before the trade deadline, all those different things, but what are the calves potentially losing?

When you’re talking about regular season from last year and offensive rating, you’re talking about top teams like the Boston Celtics who were at 122.2, Indiana Pacers 120.5, the Oklahoma City Thunder 118.3, the LA Clippers 117.9, and the Denver Nuggets 117.8, right? For me, I think defensively with the team, with the rosters that they have currently,

The Cavs are better than the Pacers, the Clippers, and potentially even the Denver Nuggets, right? But do you want to be on the offensive level of teams like the Indiana Pacers who you know you’re going to get a whole lot of buckets, but you’re going to give up a lot on the other end as well. And I don’t think the Cavs are ready to make that trade off either. like, it’s just really difficult to go through this conversation without knowing what the truth is of those conversations. even if, even if you want to go to the playoffs, right, and be like, Jarrett Allen didn’t play, there’s not a big sample size, whatever, right? Jarrett Allen was averaging 17 and 10. Like he was one of the, or 17 and 13.8, sorry, bump those numbers up a little bit. He was one of the most impactful, if not the most impactful player outside of Donovan Mitchell in the Orlando Magic series.

Right. And then you like, this is not an outlier because four games that he played was also the same four games that he played in 2019, 2020 when he’s on the Brooklyn Nets and he averaged 10.3 points per game and 14.8 rebounds a game. So this is not an outlier. Like this, this is him showing you and reminding you how impactful, how good he is at doing his job. And Kenny Atkinson touched on this when we talked about it earlier this week or last week.

talking about how he needs to push Evan Mobley, especially in the rebounding category, if they want to switch to him being a five a good amount of the time. Because without Jarrett Allen on the boards, this looks completely different. Forget offensive, forget defensive, even though you’re talking about the rebounding aspect of it and Jarrett Allen is one of the best offensive rebounding centers in the league. Like just rebounding in general, Evan Mobley doesn’t have the same knack for the ball as Jarrett Allen does.

Chris (21:20.268)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (21:38.576)

Simple as that. And it’s something that Evan is working on, especially when you talk about him putting on muscle, getting stronger, all these different things. But Jarrett Allen is just on a different level when it comes to Rebound and the Bastard.

Chris (21:38.945)

Mm-hmm.

Chris (21:52.726)

He is, there’s no doubt about that. And I think, I think you’ll see that when it comes to lineup construction and rotational usage with Kenny Atkinson moving forward. We talk about that spread lineup that he’s going to be using. If Evamoli is going to be the five, I would guess, I don’t know this for sure. I don’t have inside info on this, but I would guess that the four is Dean Wade instead of Georgenie A.

because the belief in Dean Wade as a rebounder is a little bit higher than the belief in George. And I think Kenny has alluded to it multiple times without coming out and saying it. They don’t believe in Evan the rebounder as much as they do J.A. the rebounder. And I think there’s a belief that if we’re going to put Evan as the full time five, like we’ve got to surround him with better capable rebounders than what we would have to do.

when it comes to just playing Jarrett alone at the 5. Like if Jarrett alone is playing the 5, then maybe it’s a George Niang at the 4.

because like you need some of his screening, you need some of his connection on the offensive end, you need his spacing more than what you need in terms of the rebounding aspect because Jarrett can, Jarrett has shown that he can be an elite rebounder consistently while playing the five. Evan has done it in spurts, there’s no doubt about it. And there are some matchups where, you know, he’ll pull down if he’s playing by himself the five man.

He’ll pull down, you know, what 10 to 14 rebounds or something like that, but just not to the same level as Jarrett not with this consistency of Jarrett. So I do think, you know, that’s something to pay attention to that that if they are going to use Evan as the lone five man, look at the other players around him and look at the caliber of rebounder that Kenny pairs with Jarrett or just puts in that lineup.

Chris (23:57.858)

You know, maybe Isaac Ikora is in there instead of Max Struz. If they determine Isaac is a better rebounder than Max, or maybe they determine Max is a better rebounder than Isaac and they go with Max in that line. Just look at the other components of that lineup. If Evan is going to play the five on his own, it’s something that Kenny is looking into. He’s done a deep dive statistically and analytically on it. And I just,

I think it’ll be fascinating to see the other pieces that he puts around, whether it’s Jarrett on his own or Evan on his own, to make it all work together the way that the calves ultimately wanted to work together.

Ethan Sands (24:44.504)

Right. And I mean, that’s the conversation that Kenny Atkinson has repeatedly said since he’s gotten here is he’s getting to know the players. A lot of people take that in, rightfully so take that as, I’m getting to know them. It’s my first season coaching them, getting to know them on a personal level. He’s also getting to know the players, right? As they are players, he’s getting to know which pieces. Yes, exactly. And what chess pieces he has to move and what rotations he’s got to put together so that they can be at their highest caliber.

Chris (24:52.385)

You know.

Chris (25:01.898)

Right. Thanks and weaknesses.

Ethan Sands (25:13.81)

on multiple different rotations, right? And that’s why he said, okay, I’m gonna try different pieces here. I’m gonna go 10 or 11 because I don’t wanna say, okay, this person goes better with this person. So I’m not gonna play them because they didn’t outplay somebody else in training camp. Like that’s not the vibe that I’ve gotten from Kenny Atkinson when it comes to that. Like training camp is important, practice is important, but like.

Chris (25:16.994)

9.

Chris (25:31.042)

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands (25:38.02)

where pieces fit in next to each other and what rotations he has when it comes to keeping the core four like somewhat on the court at all times. Like whether it’s Jarrett, Evan, Donovan, Darius, somebody’s got to be on the court to either lead or help out when it comes to something that somebody’s not as strong in. And I think George Niang has gotten a lot of flack because of his lack of defensive ability, his being a just…

a liability on the defensive end. And then also he had a down year shooting last year, but Kenny Atkinson talked today and praised him when it came to George Nyang, when it came to his ability to be a screen assister, especially saying he was in the 84th percentile screen assist last year. But he also did be, he was very blunt. And that’s the other thing I like about Kenny Atkinson. He said, you can’t be out there if you’re going to be a liability on defense. So if I’m going to say,

Chris (26:21.004)

Mm-hmm.

Chris (26:34.391)

Right.

Ethan Sands (26:35.494)

that you have a connection to the players, that you are a connector piece for this team, you have to use your skills if it’s not guarding or whatever on defense. It’s communicating, it’s being in the right spot, it’s having the right positioning to be able to be on this team and play in the roles that we need. And I think that’s the honest conversations that only Kenny Atkinson has been able to have because of the relationships that he’s building from the beginning.

Chris (27:04.518)

Yeah, and I think when it comes to George, I think everybody understands there are physical limitations with him as a defensive player and there are certain matchups that are going to be unfavorable for him. But Kenny Atkinson brought up a good point. Like they know George is not an elite defender. They’re not going to ask him to be an elite defender. Can you be in the right spots? You know what I mean? Right? Can you communicate on defense? Can you be one of the mouthpieces on defense?

Can you use your positioning as best you can to try and bother guys? And I think that if he does that stuff and he knocks down his threes, then I think Kenny Atkinson will see a place for George inside this rotation. And I think the other thing that Kenny Atkinson has talked about and other members of the Cavs have talked about, last year for him as a shooter,

It just wasn’t up to Georgia’s standards, right? But I think if you look throughout the course of his career and you see a year like last year mixed in with all these other years where he shot 40 % or better from three point range, what are you going to tell yourself? You’re going to say that last year was the outlier and you’re going to come up with some logical explanations for the reason why he shot the way that he did.

which was below his standards. But there’s also enough of a reason for you to sit there and say, well, there’s going to be some positive regression coming from George because he’s not a 37 % three-point shooter throughout the course of his career. He’s a 40 % three-point shooter throughout the course of his career. So can we make the looks a little bit easier? Can we make it so that some of those aren’t as contested and we create more space or

We get him running to the corner as quick as possible and we get the ball up quickly and he’s able to take those shots and get those looks before the defense gets set. So I think there are enough things that Kenny likes about George the player that will allow him to have an opportunity to be in this rotation. then look, here’s the reality. If George or somebody else that’s on that rotational bubble,

Chris (29:32.064)

or the back end of that every night rotation, if they happen to play themselves out of the rotation, then so be it. Because at some point you’re going to get to a situation as a coach where you’re gonna start saying to yourself, all right, this guy’s not getting the job done. This guy is not playing to his standards or the standards that we have set for him. Let’s see what it looks like with Jalen Tyson, right?

That’s the advantage that I think the Cavs have this year. And I think that’s something that Kenny is going to use as a benefit to this team. But I think starting the year, there would be too much risk attached to it to not have George have some kind of consistent role on this team.

Ethan Sands (30:25.426)

Chris, I think that’s a great point. And I think there is definitely going to be at least one or probably multiple opportunities for Kenny to test out whether or not he likes somebody more in whatever rotation, right? You could put that in for Sam Mero when it comes to the small, the shooting guard position and whatever, and who he wants there. Ty Jerome, those kinds of players that could be plug and play pieces. And George Nia and Jalen Tyson also.

Chris (30:39.873)

Hmm.

Ethan Sands (30:54.532)

also figuring out if Jaylen Tyson is comfortable playing the four against big grown men, right? That’s a different conversation as well. But Chris, I wanted to end this podcast on a little bit of a fun note because as you are well aware, ESPN had had Jarrett Allen at six foot nine for at least the last season. According to ESPN, Jarrett Allen, who is 26 years old, grew two inches.

over the summer and is now listed as 6′11″. I know as somebody that freaks out when like checking sources and trying to figure out what the height is of somebody to put in my articles. Last year I was freaking out because every time I would go to ESPN, they would say, Jarrett Allen, six foot nine. And I’m like, are they not counting the Afro or something? Like, what are we doing here? And…

Chris (31:36.076)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (31:52.442)

Now it’s accurately stated at six foot 11. I think he is seven foot. So they might’ve just been like, we’re not going to give you seven foot because we don’t give Katie anything like that. But I think it’s just a funny little thing that I thought happened. What do you think about Jarrett Allen growing two inches over the summer?

Chris (32:12.898)

Never in my life did I ever look at Jarrett or stare up at him in my case and think to myself, 6′9″. No. I mean, he has always seemed like a giant to me. I’ve never thought to myself, hey, he’s the same height as LeBron James. I covered them both. I covered Jarrett now and I covered LeBron in the past. Dean Wade? Dean Wade’s probably about 6′9″, 6′10″. Jarrett’s taller than Dean Wade.

I think everybody can see that when they stand next to each other. So maybe Jarrett was six foot nine in high school or something like that. I don’t know. I don’t know the last time that Jarrett was six foot nine, but it sure is, you know what, wasn’t when he was in the NBA at any point when he was in the NBA. Six nine, they really had him listed as six nine. never noticed that. It’s wild.

Ethan Sands (33:04.134)

Dude, for the entire last year, like you can probably go back into my articles and I probably had six foot nine like change like three different times. Cause I was like, I know he’s seven foot, but ESPN is listing him as six foot nine. So I’m going to write six foot nine.

Chris (33:16.46)

no chance.

Chris (33:22.166)

I think every time that I tried to label him I did near seven footer because he’s always felt like a seven footer to me. He’s long, he’s athletic, yeah, six foot nine’s hilarious.

Ethan Sands (33:37.574)

was I think I of course I was doing my little stat research today and I was like wait did they finally change this like is this finally updated like I had to refresh the page a couple times to make sure I wasn’t seeing things so all right

Chris (33:41.984)

Yeah.

Chris (33:52.93)

Did you ever bring that up with Jarrett? I’m gonna bring that up next time I see him. He grew two inches overnight, basically, in one off-season. The off-season, by the way, in which, like, he supposedly trimmed his afro to a point where people were freaking out thinking he no longer had an afro. So, like, that theoretically would have led to him losing some size, not gaining two inches. Yeah, it seems like it was a…

Ethan Sands (34:01.072)

man.

Chris (34:22.954)

a years-long misprint or something like that by ESPN. Yikes.

Ethan Sands (34:26.708)

my goodness. can’t imagine the person who went back to their page and saw that and it was like, my God, how long has this been here? yeah, I don’t, Jarrett also said that he did cut his afro down pretty significantly comparing it to like somebody that was in it, which makes sense. But I’m trying to figure out what he’d be using for his hair for it to have grown back so significantly to where he had said that he had cut it because apparently it was low.

Chris (34:35.852)

What did we do?

Ethan Sands (34:56.25)

But I don’t know. don’t know. There weren’t pictures during that period enough for me to say that it was as low as he said it was. He might have just been overreacting because he hadn’t seen it that low. Like I said, I’ve been scouring on stuff from Jarrett Allen all day and I saw him having Afro in Brooklyn and that, my friend, was an Afro Afro. Like on the sides, up top, like.

Chris (35:08.994)

Thank

Ethan Sands (35:21.272)

everywhere. I was like, my God, can we get that back? He’s wearing the headband now so it looks a little more conserved. anyway, anyway, all right. I think that’s a good place to stop. So with that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the wine and gold talk podcast. But remember to become a CAS insider and interact with Chris, me and Jimmy by subscribing to subtext.

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