Who will replace Max Strus in the Cavs’ starting lineup on opening night? Wine and Gold Talk podcast

Takeaways:

• Max Strus’ injury is a significant loss for the Cavs. His absence affects the team’s offensive and defensive dynamics.
• Dean Wade is likely to step into the starting small forward role because of his size, defensive prowess and defensive ability.
• Isaac Okoro and Caris LeVert are also candidates for the starting small forward role if Wade doesn’t work out or if matchups call for a change.

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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Ethan Sands

Three, two, one. What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk podcast. Joining me, heading into the first week of the regular season, Chris Fedor. Chris, I know you’re excited. I know we want to talk about a lot of different things. WNBA Championship is going on.

Can’t get enough of basketball, whether it’s WNBA, NBA, so much going on. But Chris, we have to really think about what’s going on with the Cavs, how are they going to come into the season already hampered on their roster, right? Not talking about Imani Bates, who’s been out for a little bit. We’re talking about Max Struppes, a guy who is a glue piece, especially for this starting lineup. What do you think? How does that impact the Cavs starting unit?

and overall how they’re gonna go about things, especially starting the season in Toronto on Wednesday.

Chris

Ethan, to me, this is a very significant loss for the Cavs. And I know a lot of people like to look at this Cavs roster and say, well, they still have Donovan Mitchell, Darius Garland, Jared Allen, Evan Mobley, and those things are true. And all of those guys are more talented than Max. But Max completes the starting five. Max brings an element that this starting five needs. His movement, his cutting, his gravity, his three point shooting, the volume.

the way that he can run a two man game with Evan Mobley. That stuff matters. And I think if you look at the numbers last year and look, numbers don’t always tell the entire story in every situation. We understand that. But I feel like they match when it comes to Max. I feel like he is an indispensable player on this roster. And if you look at the numbers, Ethan,

When he was on the floor offensively, the Cavs operated similar to the same kind of level as like the Los Angeles Lakers, Philadelphia 76ers, right? When he was off the floor, they operated like the Washington Wizards. That is a distinct difference. Their on court net rating, with Max Struce when he was in the game for, you know, the 2000 or so minutes that he played.

was plus 5.6. When he was off the floor, their net rating was minus 1.6. Now you can sit there and you can say, well, know, part of that was the fact that the guys behind him didn’t play all that well. Okay, yeah, that’s probably true. Dean Wade was dealing with some stuff last year, especially at the end where he was injured. Isaac Ikoro didn’t have a great season statistically. So yeah, like that’s true.

But like those are the same options that the Cavs are going to be looking at to try and replace Max this year as well. Like that, that particular position from a depth standpoint hasn’t gotten enhanced as much. at least in terms of the guys that the Cavs would be looking toward, immediately to replace Max. So the same guys that, that, took the floor when Max was off the floor, that that’s what the Cavs have to choose from.

Chris

and they were just a completely different team when he was off the floor last year, both offensively and defensively. Look, even I think they’re going to be fine enough defensively because if it’s Dean Wade, if it’s Isaac Okorov, if it’s Karis Levert, I think either one of those three are a better defender than Max or at least a comparable defender in the case of Karis Levert. I think the jury’s still out on that one. But offensively, it’s a different kind of

There’s a different kind of ceiling to this team when Max is out there on the floor. There’s a different kind of versatility that they have. There’s a different kind of diversity that they have within their offense. And the things that he does, Dean Wayne doesn’t do, right? Offensively. Keras Levert doesn’t do them offensively. He’s a different style player. Isaac Kukuro doesn’t do them offensively.

He’s a different style player. The closest in terms of style to Max is Sam Merrill. But I don’t think the Cavs want to go that level of small, especially with the defensive limitations that Sam has. And here’s the other thing, like Max is a legitimate, he has shown himself throughout the course of his career to be a legitimate starting caliber wing in the NBA. Sam Merrill is ninth, 10th, 11th guy in the rotation.

that is a big difference. So I just think this is the kind of loss that is going to impact the Cavs a little bit more than people would anticipate because of all of the different things that he brings to the offense and the different dimension that he brings to this offense.

Ethan Sands

Yeah, Chris. And I mean, you touched on it a little bit with the different players that could plug into his role or be the starting small forward come Wednesday. But people may be asking what happened to Max Struce, right? Because in the preseason, in the first preseason game against the Chicago Bulls, Max Struce injured his hip. had a right hip contusion after trying to take a charge against Josh Giddy, I believe it was. And that had him

Chris

Yeah.

Ethan Sands

out for the remainder of the preseason. Then when it comes to what he’s dealing with now, which is a right ankle sprain to the severity that he will not be reevaluated until six weeks from a couple of days ago, is that he was going through an individual workout trying to get back to the level that he wanted to be at to start the season. It was even questionable if he might return for the last preseason game as well at that point. But October 17th, is the date that Max Drews injured his ankle and he hasn’t been able to come back. He won’t be able to come back for at least 20 games into the regular season, right Chris? And Chris, last season, Max Drews played in 70 games. He was the third most consistent player for the Cavs and we know he’s a guy who’s a competitor. He wants to be out on the floor. And even when he was hampered last season,

It hurt him not to be out there. He pushed himself back quicker, just like Donovan Mitchell did as well, than getting the rest he needed.

So he’s going to be out for at least 20 games of this regular season before being reevaluated and see if he comes back, all those different things. For me, I just hope he doesn’t try and rush this back because of how much he wants to be out on the court with these guys, right? I think it’s very difficult to watch a team that you feel like you are a major piece of and that we understand he’s a major piece of and playing without him.

Right. And also you mentioned net rating from last season. Max Drews was the third highest net rated player for the Cavs behind only Dean Wade, who had 8.3 and Donovan Mitchell, who was at 7.3. Max Drews was at 5.6 net rated player. Right. So like this is significant as you mentioned, Chris, but who do you think fits in best with this starting lineup? For me, it’s between Donovan

between Dean Wade and Isaac Acoro. Isaac because, mainly because Dean Wade fits in really well with the second unit. Dean Wade has played majority with the second unit. Isaac Acoro has more experience in a starting lineup. But I feel like it would be scary for multiple different teams that they’re going to be facing to have to go up against a big lineup of a 6′10 small forward and two seven footers in the front court. What do you think?

Chris

I think because the Cavs have George Niang on this roster, Ethan, who does some of the same kinds of things that Dean can do from the offensive end of the floor. Space it, knock down threes. You don’t have to be that heavily involved offensively, more of a catch and shoot kind of guy. Low volume, just play within your role. Because they have Dean, I think they feel like they can use Dean as the…

the spread lineup for man and they can put Dean into the starting lineup. The feeling that I got from talking to people over the weekend is that there was a feeling inside the Cavs organization that Dean was going to get the first shot at this thing in the starting lineup. And I don’t know that it’s going to be consistent. I think when you’re talking about this kind of loss in Max Streus, and I think he’s indispensable, I think he is critical to the success of this team.

especially long term. I agree with you. I don’t think that there’s any reason to rush this. I think they want to make sure that Max recovers the way that he needs to be because everything that this organization has talked about, Ethan, is we got to peak at the right time. We got to peak going into the playoffs. So if they can withstand this early, and even if it means Max misses eight weeks as opposed to six weeks, they don’t want to get into a situation that they had to deal with last year with

Ty Jerome where they were trying to figure it out, trying to figure it out, rehabbing it as much as possible, doing all the different things behind the scenes, trying a bunch of different treatment plans and he just couldn’t get over that hump. So give it the time that it needs, give it the recovery that it needs, lean into your depth. Kenny Atkinson has talked ever since he took this job Ethan about the depth on this roster. Well, this is one of the reasons why you have

You know, Jaylen Tyson with the 20th pick in the draft. This is one of the reasons why you went out and you gave Isaac Kikoro a multi-year contract. This is why you paid Dean Wade last off season. You know what I mean? So believe in those guys, give them a chance, and lean into them as much as you can. They’re not max. They’re not going to be able to do the same exact things that max does for this team, both offensively and defensively. but,

Chris

But they’re talented enough players that at least it’s not a situation where, you know, they’re calling guys up from the G League or they’re going, and this is no offense to Craig Porter Jr. because he handled himself well. But last year they ran out of point guards and they just like were in a situation where they were playing Craig Porter Jr. NBA minutes. That was never the plan whatsoever. That shouldn’t be the situation at Small Forward.

especially given what they already have on this roster, but the belief is at least the feeling around the organization is that Dean’s going to get the first shot at this because, he provides a little bit more offense than Isaac Ikora. And I think Kenny likes Karras in the six man role. think Karras likes to be in the six man role. I think that’s something, that both guys are committed to.

And I think if you go between Isaac and Dean, given the questions still about Evan Mobley as a perimeter player and his outside shot and the spacing that the Cavs are trying to create, I just think Evan’s not yet at a point where they feel consistently go to Isaac Okoro next to him. I just think that makes it a little bit too jumbled. I think that makes it a little bit too congested.

And I don’t think that they can play the style that they would want to play offensively if they had Jared Allen, Evan Mobley and Isaac Kikoro in the starting lineup and playing big minutes together. So Dean gives you more spacing. He gives you more size. He gives you the same kind of defense as Isaac with a better, more reliable outside shot. And at the very least, like defenses pay attention to Dean.

and they stay attached to Dean in a way that they don’t with Isaac. So I think it would just be too difficult for the Cavs to consistently play the way that they want to stylistically, offensively, if it was Isaac Okoro in the starting lineup next to Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. I just think there would be too many spacing concerns. And spacing is a big, big point of emphasis coming into the opener against Toronto.

Chris

And everything that they did this off season was about spacing. Everything that they did in training camp was about spacing and pace. Like they have little tape marks all over their practice facility indicating just to give a visual to all these guys, like where they’re supposed to be spaced on the floor. And I just think it gets too jumbled if you have eyes like at the starting small forward spot.

Ethan Sands

I think Dean Wade is the best choice and solution to this situation just because of what he brings that you mentioned. But I also think we talk about, you mentioned the comparison to Ty Jerome’s ankle injury last season and Max Strus’ ankle injury this year. I think it’s interesting because obviously the injury itself is comparable, but I don’t want Max to do what Donovan Mitchell did last season and come back too early and then have to deal with an injury throughout the remainder of the season and be like, I can’t be at a hundred percent because I came back too early.

Obviously it’s never a good thing for a player to be out for an extended period of time. But given the situation with Max Drews in the preseason being out, obviously, it opened up an opportunity for Kenny Atkinson to try out this lineup with Dean Wade being in it already, right? Dean Wade had mentioned after the game that they had never done that before. They had never put him at the three.

Whether or not he said he was going to be comfortable doing it or not, he said, I’ll play wherever they want me to. But the conversation more so was like, okay, this is something that could potentially happen down the line. And now we’re talking about it happening for the starting lineup to begin the season. Obviously in a worst case scenario right now with Max True being injured, but like that doesn’t happen without the reps. And I think Kenny Atkinson got to try something.

and then said, okay, let’s implement it in practice while Max chooses out and see how this rotation might look. So Chris, how important do you think it was for them to get reps with this in their system and see how it’s gonna work with three bigs on the floor at the same time to start the game?

Chris

If we go back to a few years ago, know, JB Bicker’s staff and his coaching staff got together and they talked about the possibility of, hey, what would it look like if we just tried Lowry Markin in at the small forward spot and we put him next to Jared Allen and we put him next to Evan Mobley and we went with this three bid look. Is it viable? Hmm. Maybe it is. It’s kind of sort of working behind the scenes. We’re getting a feel for it at training camp.

But then they used it in a game situation. They used it in a preseason game. And JB, like, experimented with it as best you can. Preseason is not the regular season. Everybody understands that. But you kind of get a feel for, okay, what works, what doesn’t work. What kinds of things can we do with this look versus a different look? And in that preseason, they used Lowry at the three and they liked what they saw. And they said, well, wait a minute.

This might be viable. This might be something that we consider more than just an experiment. Maybe this is going to be our set look. So I think it was the same thing with Kenny. He looked at his roster and he said, okay, what are my different options? What are my different lineups? What are my different combinations? And by getting to look at it and seeing how Dean looked in that starting group next to some of their key players.

I think it was really, really informative. It provided more data. It provided more answers. Is it a final judgment? Of course not. But like when you see it out there against NBA talent in a live meaningful game situation, more meaningful than an intra-squad scrimmage or more meaningful than a training camp practice, it just gives you a little bit more comfortable. It makes you a little bit more comfortable.

that it is a viable look against other NBA teams. And the other thing is Kenny Atkinson has raved about Dean Wade all training camp. So this is somebody that as much as the front office likes Dean, as much as the front office has invested in Dean, Kenny Atkinson seems like a Dean Wade fan. And I think he wants to explore different things with Dean.

Chris

Okay, can he do a little bit of this offensively? Can he do a little bit of this defensively? And I think the belief in Dean and the confidence that Kenny has in Dean is going to help Dean as well in a different kind of way. And I think the fact that all of Dean’s teammates have been pumping him up and encouraging him to shoot and saying, you can play.

However you want to phrase it, the way that Tristan did is probably better the way than the way that I could. But I think that’s meaningful for somebody like Dean Wade. And if you stick him into the starting lineup, like there might be more of a sense of, you know what? They’re right. I do bleeping belonging. You know what I mean? Like they’re right. I can shoot the ball every now and then without hesitation.

And I think that could empower Dean in a different kind of way. Not to the point where he’s just going to take the job from Max Struce or something like that, but where he’s going to look confident and comfortable thrust into this role where he feels like he can hold it down and do the job well enough. And I think Kenny believes that he can hold it down and do the job well enough, just for the first couple of months.

And look, if Dean plays really, really well as the starting small forward, then that makes you feel even better about like what you’re going to be bringing off the bench once Max Struce gets full strength again. And what kinds of things you can do with your lineups and your combinations when this team gets back to full strength and stuff like

Ethan Sands

My thing for Dean Wade is like the amount of times we’ve heard that he needed to quit pump faking, right? From Kenny Atkinson. And we heard it last year with Jamie Biggersav too, like shoot the ball. Like we want you to let it fly. You have a green light. Like I don’t think he has a more fluorescent green light than almost anybody else on the team. Cause he doesn’t usually shoot. He’s always on yellow. Yeah, probably. Cause he’s trying to get up to eight or nine threes a game, but

Chris

except for maybe Darius at this point. Right. Right.

Ethan Sands

Like there is a fluorescent green light for Dean Wade to shoot the ball.

I think Dean Wade usually is like a yellow light, right? He’s always like looking around trying to see if there’s somebody else that he considers better than him to take a shot or whatever, a better open look or whatever it may be. Like you need to shoot the ball. And I think Kenny Atkinson not only gave him like positive reinforcement, but also negative reinforcement. Like, all right, well, if you don’t shoot it, you’re coming out because if you are not shooting the ball, you are hampering this team. You are not helping us. You are not doing your job if you’re not going to take those shots. And I think because Dean Wade is such an high IQ player, high like want to make the right play player, he’s going to be like, okay, well, now if you say that I am not helping this team or I’m hurting this team by not taking these shots, that might hit home a little bit different. And the other thing I wanted to mention when it comes to the comparison with

Chris

Mm-hmm.

Ethan Sands

Dean Wade and Isaac Okoro, especially on the defense event, because they shot the same percentage last season, 39.1%, a little bit different when it came to the attempts. right, like on defense, Isaac Okoro simply can’t guard the same guys that Dean Wade can guard when we’re talking about, like, bigger players, right? Dean Wade offers the opportunity for Evan, Jarrett, and Dean to switch on nearly any situation that comes up.

defensively when it comes down to the painted area. The other thing, obviously we don’t want to look too far ahead past the Raptors game, but we’re talking a little bit about the season home opener against Detroit. We’ve talked about it a lot, Chris. Cade Cunningham is a guy that Dean Wade enjoys guarding. He’s not your regular point guard, and Isaac Okora would struggle in that situation against him. He’s a little bit stronger, he’s a little bit bigger.

Ethan Sands

Dean Wade can handle those with a better efficiency and he still brings all the things that you mentioned on the offensive end when it came to shooting, spacing, and even tempo, right? Dean Wade can run a little bit. He’s not slow. He’ll be able to be outside the Mack truck lane and get to his spots and be comfortable hitting a corner three and all those different things. the other thing, the last thing when it comes to the comparison between Isaac Okoro and Dean Wade is we’ve seen Dean Wade get hot and stay hot.

Ethan Sands

I don’t know if I’ve seen a game where Isaac O’Coro has stayed hot, gotten hot, and been consistently shooting from the three-point range with confidence. We all remember the 20.4th quarter by Dean Wade against the Boston Celtics, who got him to name the Celtics killer. He was able to knock down, I think it was five for five on three-pointers and just did a spectacular job continuing to shoot, heat checking.

No hesitation, confidence, oozing, all of those different things. And I think if you have that Dean Wade on a regular night, that’ll change the flow of this offense and also give more confidence to guys like Evan Mobley and stuff to shoot from the outside as well.

Chris

Yeah. And you know, the other person that I think benefits from this in a roundabout way, if, if Kenny decides to go with Dean as the starting small forward, then I think one of the guys that benefits is George Nie. And, you know, we talked on a previous podcast about the 10, 11 man rotation. and getting to 11 sometimes for a coach can be difficult in that 11th guy. How many minutes are they going to get?

How long is that leash going to be? When you’re talking about this situation that the Cavs are now in, okay, obviously people are going to look toward Isaac Okoro. He’s going to play off the bench. Maybe it could give more minutes to Jalen Tyson down the road as the Cavs get more and more comfortable with him. And then you look at Karras Levert and you look at Dean Wade, but if Dean is going to be the starter at small forward,

then I guess theoretically he could still be the backup power forward, but it just becomes a little bit more difficult for Kenny with his lineups, his combinations and his rotations. I just think this gives George one less impediment to playing time. Because if we would have looked at it as Darius, Donovan, Max, Evan and Jarrett, then in the depth chart,

Dean Wade was going to be the backup power forward. That seemed to be established throughout the course of training camp and in the preseason. And that didn’t mean that George was going to be just out of the rotation, but the guy who was going to be the primary backup power forward was going to be Dean Wade. If he’s in the starting lineup, you can only play him so many minutes.

You’re going to need to fill those power forward minutes somewhere else. And filling those, the backup power forward minutes with Dean Wade while he’s also the starting small forward, it’s just complicated. So I think the Cavs are going to need George to fill that role, the role that Dean was going to play for the second unit. And that means George is going to have to knock down shots. That means George is going to have to score.

Chris

That means George is going to have to be something other than a liability on the defensive end of the floor. And I think we’re looking at a situation, Ethan, where George might’ve been like a 12 to 15 minute a night guy from the outset in an 11 man rotation. And now he could be once again, an 18 to 20 minute guy because they need a backup power forward.

Ethan Sands

Chris, you just made so many listeners unhappy talking about George Nian minutes and the potential of dub increasing rather than decreasing. These fans, these listeners would staple him to the bench if it was an option. Like Velcro his shorts, whatever you need to do to keep Jordan DeA off the court. And I get it. Like there have been meme compilations of George Nian getting pushed to the floor defensively and he has a signature pose with his legs up in the air when he’s on the floor. That is ridiculous one. Two, it’s not a good look, right? That’s not what you’re looking for from your backup power forward. You don’t want him to be on the floor. He’s supposed to be standing your ground and all of these things. But I think the reality is, is Jalen Tyson isn’t ready yet to play that power forward spot, right? I don’t think, and he might never be ready. He might be a three to a one depending on situations for the Cavs. And that’s okay. But understanding where these other players are gonna fill in, like you mentioned earlier on the pod, that is what they’ve talked about is depth. And what is the, celebrating their depth, right?

That is the phrase that Jimmy and Kenny Atkinson have been playing with the entire off season, entire preseason. And now it’s time to do it. Like we’ve talked so much about lip service, so much about lip service and how things have been said and still have to be done. Now it’s time for those things to come to fruition. And Chris, I know we gave a little bit of insight to who we think is going to be the starting small forward and somebody that we saw as the starting small forward in the preseason a couple of times, but.

Is there anything else that you think should be added for this to end the podcast? Maybe something about Karis LaVert being an option or why he’s a six man option and if he’s still going to be there. I know we talked about it briefly, but maybe a little bit more on that. What do think?

Chris

Caris, I think is going to be a guy, Ethan, who gets 28 to 32 minutes a night. I think that was going to be his role. I think that was going to be his workload. whether Max Deuce was going to be healthy or not. Right. I just don’t think he’s the kind of guy who his role is going to fluctuate based on who is available and who is not. think he has a clear cut role on this team. I think he’s the sixth man. I think he’s a secondary playmaker.

He’s obviously somebody that Kenny Atkinson trusts. They need some scoring off the bench. They need some stability off the bench and with the second. And I just don’t think that Kenny wants to get into a situation where he’s changing roles constantly.

Karras to be comfortable with six man. think Kenny is.

That the Cavs haven’t had conversations about hey Bruce do we go with Karis without Max Truss? Do we go with Isaac Akora without Max Truss? Do we go with Dean way? You’ve got to talk through like all the different options But I just think I just think Karis has a stable role and I think they want to keep him in that stable role and it’s a very important role for a team that you know

needs something consistently off the bench. Keras can provide.

Ethan Sands

Six man can change the game, Chris, and that is why Caris Lerard has been trusted with that role we talked about it last season, his comfortability with being coming off the bench and being in it.

similar role when it comes to throughout the entire season how that allows him to get into a groove and understand what his role is gonna be and I don’t think Kenny Atkins is gonna want to take that away from him especially how he knows now already from being in Brooklyn and also learning and what he’s doing now with his comfortability just around the floor and with this group of players but

We’ve touched on Dean Wade, we’ve touched on him potentially more than likely being the replacement for Max Deuce come opening night in Toronto. And then we’ve talked about who could get opportunities, not only in the second unit, but also if things don’t work out with Dean Wade in that starting rotation. But with that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of The Wine and Gold Talk podcast. But remember to become a Cavs Insider and interact with Chris.

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