Would you rather have Tristan Thompson or Marcus Morris Sr.? Hey, Chris! Wine and Gold Talk podcast

Takeaways:

• Evan Mobley is expected to play a significant role as the backup center.
• Tristan Thompson’s role is more about veteran leadership now, as the Cavs are focusing on roster balance and positional depth.
• Kenny Atkinson’s coaching style may enhance Darius Garland’s performance, along with the bigs by diversifying the Cavs’ offensive strategies this season.

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Read the automated transcript of today’s podcast below. Because it’s a computer-generated transcript, it may contain errors and misspellings.

Ethan Sands

What up, Cavs Nation? I’m your host, Ethan Sands, and I’m back with another episode of the Wine and Gold Talk Podcast. And joining me, I know you’ve missed him, I sure have, Chris Fedor Fedor, the best Cavs Beat reporter in the land. How are you doing, my friend? How was your vacation?

Chris Fedor (00:31.03)

Boy, I’m doing great. feel refreshed. I feel rejuvenated. I feel more relaxed than I had been. I will say this, it is a handful being a full -time dad. Like that’s my full -time job. And just being with Elliot every single day, morning until night. But it was so much fun to spend so much time with him and go to parks and go on walks and teach him how to hit a

baseball and teach them how to swing a golf club the correct way and all that different kind of stuff. So it’s been a lot of fun. It’s been a really, really good month. Ethan, I mixed in some golf there too. I got my swing back together. That was nice. My wife and I actually took our son to a safari in the middle of nowhere in Ohio. It’s like an 11 ‚000 acre safari in a city that I didn’t even know existed. It’s called Cumberland. It was awesome.

We saw rhinos, saw zebras, saw giraffes, we saw cheetahs, we saw donkeys that were just crossing the middle of the dirt road where we were trying to go on our safari bus and they were being a pain in the butt. And we had to like nudge them out of the way and they would just stare at us. And that’s how close you got to all these different animals. So it was a pretty wild experience, but it was so awesome. It was so interesting.

and my son loved it and now I’m ready for training camp, which is going to start here very, very soon.

Ethan Sands (02:01.887)

Chris Fedor, I mean, if you would have told me or said that there were animals like that in Ohio, I’d probably scratch my head and be like, you’re probably lying. But I mean, that’s insane to feel that you were next to rhinos and stuff.

Chris Fedor (02:17.92)

I know.

I know, my son was introducing himself to the Rhino. He was saying, hi Rhino, name Elliot. Elliot Fedor. Because he is in this mode Ethan, where he has learned his last name. He has learned my actual first name other than Dada. He has learned my wife’s first name other than Mama. So it’s a really fun time and getting to be with him basically the entire summer or the second half of the summer has been really, really rewarding and a lot of fun.

Ethan Sands (02:50.719)

He’s growing up fast man, he’s bout to be three years old, gotten the names down. Time flies!

Chris Fedor (02:57.42)

I know. By the way, the name of that place, if people are curious about it, is called The Wilds. Like I said, it’s in the middle of nowhere. It takes a little bit more than two hours from the west side of Cleveland to get to that city. There’s basically one hotel within 10 miles. So we drove up the night before. We used my Marriott points, stayed in the hotel, woke up the next morning.

drove 30 minutes on a bunch of dirt roads to get to this place called The Wilds. And it’s about a two hour tour or something like that where you get to see all the different animals on the property. And it’s not something that you would expect to be in Ohio, trust me. And the up close experience that you get and how close you get to these animals, like the giraffe, the neck of the giraffe was literally inside the truck.

that was in front of us. So there are like multiple tours that you can take and one of them is called quote unquote the wild side tour. And you’re driving around in a pickup truck and I’m telling you the giraffe’s neck was inside the truck being fed lettuce or something like that’s how close you get to these things and you’re out in the wild. It’s a pretty cool experience.

Ethan Sands (04:18.932)

That makes sense for the name to be the wild. But… Full circle moment. Yeah, 100%. But Chris Fedor, you mentioned…

Chris Fedor (04:21.74)

Right? It all ties together. What do you know? They knew what they were doing.

Chris Fedor (04:32.414)

And every time I talked about it with people for the couple of days after, because I was being really, really corny, I said, you know what? The experience was dot, dot, dot wild.

Ethan Sands (04:46.983)

At least you called yourself out. I’m gonna let you slide on that one. We’re not gonna get into the weeds on that one. But Chris Fedor, Chris Fedor, you mentioned it, how close we are to training camp. We are recording this on Monday, literally a week from media day. And then the day after you will be on a flight or probably the same day on a flight to Florida.

Chris Fedor (04:47.212)

Hahaha!

Chris Fedor (04:56.842)

Thank you.

Ethan Sands (05:13.737)

to be with the team at IMG Academy as they go through their training camp. So we wanted to obviously get you back into the swing of things this week. Gonna release this on Tuesday and then another episode on Thursday, but we could not bring you back on any better note than with the Hey Chris Fedor pod. So are you ready to get back into it with our subtexters and hear the questions that they have for you since you’ve been back?

Chris Fedor (05:44.022)

Let’s do it, man. I’m curious what kind of questions they have too.

Ethan Sands (05:47.773)

Alrighty, first one from Matt in Nashville. He says, will be our big or type of who will be our backup bigs is Tristan the only backup center is George Nyang really considered a backup big. We seem a little small and soft. What do you think?

Chris Fedor (06:10.774)

Well, to me, the backup big needs to be considered Evan Mobley. That’s how the Cavs are looking at it. That’s how I think fans need to start looking at it, too. I think you’re going to see a situation, obviously, where the Cavs start the game with Evan Mobley and Jared Allen on the court together, probably around the eight or nine minute mark of the first quarter. One of those guys goes to the bench, most likely Evan, I would think. And then they finish out the first quarter with Jared or something like that. And then they bring Evan back.

at the start of the second quarter. However they want to split it up, that’s the plan going into this season. They’re not looking at Tristan Thompson saying, hey man, we need you to play 20 to 25 minutes a night. The backup big on this team is Evan Mobley. And it’s just going to be about Evan being ready for the physicality that’s required to play the center spot. It’s about him thriving and figuring out how to survive and

be effective both offensively and defensively without Jared Allen next to him. And they’re going to play those guys together throughout the course of the season. And Kenny Atkinson has talked about how excited he is about that. But they’re also going to split those guys up throughout the course of games as well. And I think whoever finishes the game, it’s going to be based on feel. It’s going to be based on matchups. It’s going to be based on game flow.

It’s going to be based on whether Kenny feels like he should go with the two bigs at the end of the game, or if he should go a little bit smaller and space it out and spread the floor. the ability of Evan Mobley, and I think he showed some promise, Ethan, especially during the times where Jarrett was out in the series against Orlando, in the series against Boston in the playoffs, the ability of Evan Mobley to effectively play the five is really, really beneficial when it comes to this team.

and the versatility and the different lineups that they can put out there on the floor. It gives Kenny Atkinson a lot of different options and it keeps them from having to play Tristan Thompson in an expanded role. And they can just allow Tristan to be what he is. One of the last guys to come off the bench, a veteran leader, somebody who can be used in case of emergency or in case of injury or in case of fall trouble or something along those lines. And that

Chris Fedor (08:33.214)

at this point of Tristan’s career is all he can really do to be at his most effective.

Ethan Sands (08:40.572)

And then we’re also talking about how the two bigs can impact how the future looks for the Cavs, right? Because we talked about that all off season at the end of the season, especially seeing Evan Mobley kind of make that potential jump this coming season, what he was able to show, especially in that Boston series, like you mentioned, the potential for him to make that move to as the as the five man for the Cavs seems inevitable, but

Chris Fedor (09:08.117)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (09:10.791)

Depending on how Kenny Atkinson can work with these guys in Jared Allen, Mobley and their effectiveness together on the court, the Cavs could look in a different direction to see what is more beneficial for this team, depending on if they feel like having one five man like the Spurs did with Victor Wimanyama and kind of working with for Oklahoma City and the Thunder, which at Holmgren and kind of move Evan Mobley to that five spot. Or do they keep?

Chris Fedor (09:36.336)

huh.

Ethan Sands (09:37.673)

both at Jared Allen and Evan Mobley, so Evan can have a little bit more protection in the painted area. But I also wanted to touch on what the Cavs depth chart is as of today, so our Cavs insiders can understand that as well. Obviously, the starting center is Jared Allen. The second, the backup center for this depth chart is Evan Mobley.

The third is Tristan Thompson. The fourth is Dean Wade. And the fifth is Pete Nance, which I think is interesting because I also wanted to touch on that a little bit before we got into a little bit more, Chris Fedor, because the Cavs signed Pete Nance to an exhibit 10 contract for training camp because he did not get one of the two -way spots. Obviously, those three spots were taken up by Imani Bates, Luke Travers, and JT Thor.

Along with Nance, according to a report by Michael Scotto of HoopsHype the Cavs may also bring Jules Bernard, Niquan Tomlin, Gabe, I’m gonna butcher this, Asab Waheem, and to Camp Deals. So those are the guys that the Cavs are also bringing on for training camp. Those are also, if you see those names and are like, hmm, those might be familiar. Some of those guys were on the summer league team with the Cavs this past summer. Chris Fedor, the next, go ahead.

Chris Fedor (10:58.122)

Well, that’s not entirely correct. I did see that report that was out there. It’s just not entirely correct because some of those guys are just going to be viewed by this organization as more Cleveland charge type players. And there are some names that they’re bringing to training camp that actually aren’t out there. And one of them, my sources tell me, is Zyer Smith. Zyer played with the charge.

the last couple of years, I believe, and he was with the Cavs at Summer League and he had that huge dunk and he showed his hops and he’s a former first round pick and stuff like that. He’s somebody that they’re actually bringing to training camp that is going to compete with the NBA guys. And another name my sources tell me is Jacob Gilliard, who is the NCAA all -time leader in steals despite being five foot eight. So he went undrafted a couple of years ago.

He’s spent some time in the Memphis organization and the Brooklyn organization most recently. But I’m told that Jules Bernard, Zaire Smith, Pete Nance, and Jacob Gilliard actually are the four that are going to round out the training camp roster. And some of those other names that you mentioned, the Cavs are viewing more as Cleveland charge type guys because they want them on their G league team because they see enough promise. They see some developmental opportunities.

and stuff like that. But Pete’s the interesting one because he was on the two way at the end of last year. He was getting a little bit of run for this team as like one of the leaders of the summer roster. I think they want him to be a part of the organization in some capacity. I think they see some more developmental opportunities. I think they like his ability to space the floor and guard on the perimeter. And he has gotten stronger.

He has gotten more physical. but I just don’t think that the view of Pete right now, based on the current roster construction is one of this guy’s going to help our NBA team. It’s let’s continue to have him in our program. Let’s continue to work with him on the side. Let’s continue to develop him in the G league and let’s see if down the road, something is there and he’s more NBA ready at some point in his career.

Chris Fedor (13:22.732)

and I think Pete has shown that that he’s okay with that and he understands that and Getting a taste of the NBA last year was good for him to kind of see okay What are the things that I need to continue to work on to become a full -time? NBA player as opposed to somebody who’s going to bounce between the two if if that ever materializes in his

Ethan Sands (13:47.519)

But so based on the report that I was looking at, is it that all of those guys are going to come to training camp, but not all of them are competing?

Chris Fedor (13:57.908)

No, I think the way that it’s going to work, and we’ll see what happens over the next couple of days or so, but the Cavs in the past have done something similar, and I would expect them to do the same as well. They sign these guys to deals or whatever, then they cut them, and it just allows them to kind of control their rights in a different kind of way. I forget which player it was that they did this with a couple of years ago.

But it was some player that they did, and they did it only to control their rights on the G League side of things.

Ethan Sands (14:34.741)

So they could still be in Florida, yes or no.

Chris Fedor (14:40.34)

I would think no. But we’ll see. We’ll see what happens on that front.

Ethan Sands (14:42.013)

Okay, interesting.

Ethan Sands (14:46.911)

Yep, and you know that we’re gonna find out why you’re down there. So we’ll see, we’ll see. Going back to our subtexters and a question that kind of bounces off the big man question is from Rick from Atlanta who says, why re -sign Tristan Thompson instead of Marcus Morris when the ladder is a better big that seems to fit a more space and three point style. He also provides toughness and grit.

Chris Fedor, if I may, the two things that are glaring to me for this is that one, Marcus Morris Sr. is not a center and two, Marcus Morris Sr. and Tristan Thompson are both known for their grit and determination and toughness, right? Because Tristan Thompson is a guy that has been known to bark and push guys around and push his own teammates to different levels when it comes to toughness.

and why he was brought back to the Cleveland Cavaliers a couple years ago and also why he’s signed another one year contract this off season. The other side being that Marcus Morris Sr. made some comments about Jared Allen throughout the after the playoffs where it was having some speculation whether Jared Allen could or should have played in some of those playoff games with a broken or cracked or pierced rib.

Chris Fedor (15:49.112)

Mm -hmm.

Ethan Sands (16:10.869)

Whatever the terminology you want to use, was a lot thrown around back then. But yeah, I just think it was an interesting and difficult situation. Obviously Marcus Morris Sr. did find a home, but Chris Fedor, what do you think on this topic?

Chris Fedor (16:29.164)

I think a big part of it, Ethan, is that there is a positional depth chart and the Cavs are trying to balance the roster as much as possible. And I think even though Tristan and Marcus have different skill sets, and you can certainly make an argument that Marcus is a more effective player at this stage of his career, and if the Cavs had to go to him for 20 to 25 minutes,

for a long stretch or for a short stretch or for however long, the production that the Cavs would get from Morris is probably much more, let’s say, not guaranteed, more certain than what you could probably get from Tristan. But I think when you look at the way that this roster is constructed, there are more guys on this roster

that can play and occupy the positions of Marcus Morris Sr. than there are when it comes to Tristan Thompson. Like Dean Wade can play the position and do theoretically the same things that the Cavs would want from Marcus Morris on the court. Isaac Okoro can play the three slash four in certain lineups and constructions. Max Drews can play the three slash four. George Niang can play the three slash four.

So I just think when you’re looking at the roster, Marcus still at this stage of his career is more of a three slash four in terms of position, in terms of skillset translating to on court. And I think the Cavs have enough of those guys and I think they feel comfortable with the options that they have to play those particular positions. Whereas Tristan Thompson is a legitimate backup center. And I think there was a little bit of a danger for the Cavs in going into this season with the only backup center.

being the guy who also happens to start at Power Forward for them. So for the entire off season, the Cavs were weighing all their options. They were looking at trades. They were looking at free agency. But one of the things that they said that they wanted to do and one of the things that I reported was on their radar is one of the first things that they wanted to do was address the third center spot, just so that they had a little bit more depth.

Chris Fedor (18:52.704)

just so that they had a little bit more insurance. And I just don’t think the Cavs view Marcus Morris Sr. despite the fact that he is a better basketball player at this stage of his career than Tristan, as a better fit for this current roster than Tristan.

Ethan Sands (19:08.913)

And Chris Fedor, mean, when people think about how interesting this season is going to be for the Cavs, right? Because the home opener against the Detroit Pistons and former head coach, J .B. Bickerstaff, who also brought with them a couple of coaches from that last staff, Luke Walton, Sidney Selle, like it’s just really trying to figure out how much drama is going to be around this season, right? Because now

You get to see Marcus Morris Sr. on an exhibit nine contract with the New York Knicks who are in the same conference, obviously, as the Cavs. And obviously there’s already some heat between the Knicks and the Cavs based on two years ago, the playoff series. And it feels like this could be another like, well, they needed a big also because Mitchell Robinson is allegedly not going to be ready for the start of the season.

Julius Randall probably gonna play the five to start the season. They needed some more toughness, more grit, more determined, more all of those things. And Marcus Morris senior matches the New York style of play, if I would say so. But it’s just interesting. And also looking at the Cavs and talking about the center and power forward position and how they’re going to work together.

Chris Fedor (20:11.926)

Hey.

Ethan Sands (20:31.253)

Our next question comes from Lloyd from Mayfield Heights. He says, there has been some criticism of the Cavs lack of changes this offseason except the addition of a new coach. Is it feasible that Cavs will improve offensively with the implementation of an offense using Mobley and Allen, similar to how Golden State used Green and Looney? Plus, getting Mobley to shoot four or five threes a game at 35 % or higher.

These are relatively modest changes, which could have a dramatic impact. And I wrote about this earlier this off season, right? I wrote about how Kenny Atkinson kind of got the offense moving in Golden State for the last couple of years with Looney and Draymond Green. And it comes down to a similar style that they were using already, right? The Cavs were…

really high in screen usage this past season. believe Donovan Mitchell and Darius Garland were top two when it came to picking roles for the entire league, if I’m not mistaken. And then also looking at how the intellectual part of it when it comes to Draymond Green being kind of a catalyst, even without the ball in his hands to set screens, move people around and all those different things, along with re -screening, which is something that Kenny Atkinson has become known for.

could be impactful for this cast team, especially because if you have two good screeners on the block, especially with Jared Allen being one of the better screening bays in the NBA, along with teaching Evan Mobley some of the things that Kevon Looney was learning and also learning how Max Struz, Dean Wade could use certain screens as well to set off and get around the ball. Because it felt like last season to me, Chris Fedor, there was one play that was very

familiar to the Cavs. It was a set of screen near the baseline or by the corner three for the shooter to come up to the top of the key and either shoot a three or dish it down to based on what the situation was. That was to me what the most ran play was from last season. And I think there will be more things that Kenny Atkinson will run to differentiate so the defenses don’t catch on to that so easily.

Chris Fedor (22:53.386)

Yeah, look, the Cavs have been for the last couple of years, one of the most pick and roll heavy teams in the entire NBA, Ethan. Now part of that’s by design, right? Darius Garland is an elite pick and roll player. Donovan Mitchell is an elite pick and roll player. They have been throughout the course of their careers. And Jared Allen is an elite pick and roll big. He’s one of the best pick and roll bigs in the NBA. So you don’t want to go away from that completely because it favors the personnel that you have.

the system, the style, it works well with this group of personnel. The key for the Cavs, and I think you hit on it, Ethan, it’s diversifying the offense. It’s making it so it’s a little bit less predictable. It’s giving opportunities for Evan to operate as an offensive hub from the elbows, in the post, run some DHO stuff with Max Drews, get some off ball movement, and do that a little bit more consistently.

And I thought at times the Cavs did that. I just don’t think there was the level of consistency within the offense that the Cavs were hoping for, that J .B. Bicker’s staff was hoping for, that the players were hoping for, to be perfectly honest with you. So I do think that that is one variable that could allow the Cavs to see an uptick in offense and see the kind of offense that they hope to be, especially based on the personnel.

That they have like they have Donovan Mitchell, they have Darius Garland, they have Evan Mobley, they have Jared Allen. There’s no reason that this team can’t be a top half of the league offense on a consistent nightly basis, right? The personnel should be there. You can sit there and you can say, well, I don’t know about the wing spot. Well, I don’t know if they have enough consistent shooting. I don’t know if the spacing is going to be there with Jared and Evan, but based on this new coach, this new system,

and this group of personnel, I certainly think there’s the capability of being a top half of the league offense. So that is one variable. The other variable is this. Darius Garland can be so much better than what he was last year for the Cavs. And a big reason why they didn’t ascend offensively and take that leap offensively that so many people were talking about, including J .B. Bickerstaff, is because Darius had a bad year.

Chris Fedor (25:14.934)

Darius is one of the highest paid players on this roster. Darius is one of the most important players on this roster. He can’t have the kind of year from a productivity standpoint that he had last year and this team be an elite offensive team. It’s just not gonna happen. So if you look at Kenny’s history, D ‘Angelo Russell had a career year with Kenny in Brooklyn. If you look all across every stop that Kenny has made,

You know, point guards have thrived in the kind of system and the kind of style that he tries to implement. So I’m really, really fascinated to see what Kenny Atkinson can get out of Darius Garland and how much more Kenny can get out of him than what JB was able to. Another variable offensively that you can look at is Max Drews. Is he going to shoot the way that he shot with the Cavs in his first year with the Cavs, or is he going to shoot more like the year that he had the year before that?

with the Miami Heat, George Niang, how’s he going to play coming off the bench? What kind of shooter is he going to be for the Cavs this year? Is he going to be more comfortable in year two with the Cavs? And what kind of growth is Evan Mobley going to show going into year four, especially on the offensive end of the floor? I think those are the four variables that stand out to me the most that tie into just how much of a ceiling do the Cavs have on the offensive end.

Ethan Sands (26:45.607)

And I mean, it’s also important just to note that they’re already getting started, right? They’re already getting kind of into the flow of things before training camp, at least based on what the Cavs social media platforms have been posting. It seemed as though like Donovan Mitchell, Max Struce, Jared Allen, Sam Merrill, George Niang, Ty Jerome, Caris Laverte, like multiple of these guys that are going to be very important for this offense.

Chris Fedor (27:08.224)

Mm -hmm.

Ethan Sands (27:15.441)

especially setting up some of the moving pieces. Like I mentioned, Max Trues and Jared Allen being two big ones in that. Obviously, Donovan Mitchell probably at the head of those situations or coming off screens or whatever. Having them be able to learn with Kenny Atkinson. Kenny Atkinson hasn’t been pictured at these workouts, but you would assume that he is in the building or having some kind of communication with these guys. And George Nyang even talked about on

Chris Fedor (27:35.882)

Mm -hmm.

Ethan Sands (27:43.471)

a recent podcast that he hosts about how Kenny Atkinson has already reached out to almost everybody on the Cavs team to kind of create a bomb relationship with them already. And it feels like that’s something that he’s done everywhere he’s gone and learned from other coaches that he’s been under. And that’s the other thing, Chris Fedor, right? Like Kenny Atkinson being under Steve Kerr, Kenny Atkinson being under some of the best coaches in the NBA for his career is not only going to

Chris Fedor (28:10.572)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (28:12.285)

Yeah, it’s never Tai Lu. Yeah. Like Dan Tony, it’s never going to be like, he cannot take one thing from somebody and implement it somewhere else. He’s got to be able to use all the things that he learned and continue to learn with this team and apply it with the roster and the talent that he has as well.

Chris Fedor (28:34.764)

I’ll say this too, Ethan. I don’t know exactly what all of the roles are going to be for this team. I think Kenny is still figuring those things out. I think training camp is going to play a part in that. I think preseason is going to play a part in that. I don’t think he wants to box himself into a certain depth chart or a certain rotation. It’s way too early for that. In saying that, I do feel like Sam Merrill is a Kenny Atkinson type of

And I do think he is going to be more of an X factor in this iteration of the calves than what he has been previously.

Ethan Sands (29:13.959)

All right, Chris Fedor, that is Hey Chris Fedor for today. And I think we’re going to keep continuing to ask questions of our subtextures, obviously, but I feel like just getting into training camp, getting into media day, getting to talk to these guys outside of interviews that we’ve done this summer or whatever is going to be like, we’re back in the flow of things. We’re back around these guys getting more topics to talk about and

Chris Fedor (29:37.483)

Yeah.

Ethan Sands (29:43.047)

It’s been a long summer, but we’ve made it almost back to the season. I know I’m excited, but.

Chris Fedor (29:51.907)

Was that the first episode of Hey Chris Fedor where there was not an Isaac Okoro question? I think a bit of it.

Ethan Sands (30:00.649)

I mean, I think there’s probably one in here, but I wanted to focus on the things that we had topics for. don’t make me do it for the next podcast, Chris Fedor. We can do a whole Isaac Acora podcast for the next one. But with all that being said, that’ll wrap up today’s episode of the Wine and Gold Talk.

Chris Fedor (30:08.647)

Alright.

Chris Fedor (30:13.727)

you

Chris Fedor (30:17.558)

Let’s go.

Ethan Sands (30:27.093)

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