CLEVELAND, Ohio — It’s time for this week’s Terry’s Talkin’ podcast with cleveland.com columnist Terry Pluto and host David Campbell. Today we start with the Browns, and Terry’s ideas for how they can help get some support for Deshaun Watson and point the offense in the right direction.
We also delve into the AL Central champion Guardians as they prepare for the ALDS, and Terry’s favorite moments of the regular season.
And Terry discusses what he learned at Cavs media day, as the team works out in Florida.
Highlights:
- The Browns are struggling with a 1-3 record and fan frustration is palpable.
- Did the Browns need a “new” offense?
- Baker Mayfield’s success in Tampa Bay raises questions about his time in Cleveland.
- The No. 1 most urgent issue facing the Browns;
- The Guardians are gearing up for the playoffs. Who’s their best matchup option?
- Donovan Mitchell’s commitment to the Cavs has opened up all kinds of possibilities;
- Terry’s take on Cavs media day;
- and this week’s listener letters about why they’re a Cleveland sports fan; and Cavs draft pick Jaylon Tyson.
Here’s the podcast for this week.
If the player above doesn’t work, you can listen to this week’s podcast here.
You can email any comments or questions you may have about the podcast, to [email protected], and put “Terry’s Talkin’” in the subject line.
You can find previous podcasts below. The transcript below was generated by a computer, and so it contains many spelling and grammar errors.
David Campbell (00:55.29)
Hey, it’s time for a new Terry’s talking podcast with cleveland.com and plane dealer columnist Terry Pluto and me your host David Campbell What’s happening Terry? What going on?
Terry (01:06.994)
See now you have a choice. Do you want to start with good news with the Guardians or bad news with the Browns? Since this Cleveland fans sometimes don’t know how handle good news.
David Campbell (01:13.713)
Well…
David Campbell (01:19.44)
Here’s my thinking. think we should start with the Browns today because the Guardians have five days off and the Browns feel more urgent to me. How’s that?
Terry (01:27.394)
Well that will be true and then by the weekend, so just so fans know, I will be doing the Guardians in Cleveland on what’s a Saturday and Monday. And there’s a reason they invented TV. So sometimes when I can’t go to the Browns game, I could watch it just like the rest of you.
David Campbell (01:46.226)
There you go. Yeah. We’ll have a full crew out there and you’ll be back here watching. So it’s a crazy busy sports weekend. So.
Terry (01:49.568)
Yep, so that’ll be, yeah, it’s really cool to see that. And of course, the CAS Media Day, there’s some interesting stuff there we could talk about. So they’re all ramping up. Yep.
David Campbell (01:57.648)
Yeah, got a lot to get to. All right, well, let’s start with the Browns then, Terry. The one in three Browns, I wanted to…
Terry (02:04.59)
did you see the thing I sent you? Now why I never gamble, it did come from some gambling site. what was it? The percentage of one in three teams that make the playoffs was, did you notice?
David Campbell (02:19.054)
It was like 11.4%. I think they showed that during the game Sunday too, if I remember, did they?
Terry (02:21.098)
Yes, we could. well, and they also broke it down to like did those teams who did that do anything basically in the playoffs? And the answer is no.
David Campbell (02:31.13)
All right. Well, one of the things I love about the way you approach your job, Terry, is you present the voice of the fans a lot. So I thought we’d start off with an email we got right after the loss Sunday, because I thought it represented a lot of what you were writing about. This is from Max Torum, and Max writes, hey, Terry and David, this is Max Torum writing to you from Miami, Florida. I grew up in Cincinnati and lived there for most of my life, but I was raised to be a diehard fan of all Cleveland sports by my dad, who was raised in Akron.
Terry (02:37.912)
Yes.
Terry (02:44.162)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (02:58.608)
I’m writing this note to you on Monday after the Browns suffered a heartbreaking loss to the Raiders. I wanted to ask for your thoughts on the remaining hopeful and optimistic things that the Browns can do to turn this around after years of agony. How do you do it? What makes you keep the faith? I don’t mean to be a downer, but for context, I’m 25 years old and have hardly seen any success from the Browns my entire life. Even when we finally won a playoff game in Pittsburgh a few years ago and it felt like we had a bright future with a franchise QB and Mayfield.
We let him go and entered the Watson era. My dad always seems to be hopeful at the beginning of each season. Whereas I’m typically more pessimistic. Is this because he knows what it’s like to have rooted for a good Browns team and can use those good memories to stay positive? Or do I just need to lighten up a bit? Thank you both for putting out this podcast each week and always putting a positive spin on everything. It’s nice to hear your perspectives and make me feel connected to Cleveland sports culture, even from thousands of miles away. Again, that’s best from Max Torum.
That kind of summed up what you wrote, I think, over the weekend, Terry. Yeah.
Terry (04:01.39)
Well, a couple of things. Number one is Max being 25 means he actually, we’d have to probably get the exact date. So either the Browns came back before he was born or right after he was born. So he missed the move. And so in other words, I still maintain it was one of the biggest traumatic things and still has had a horrendous impact on the franchise. shouldn’t.
But just to show you the book I wrote, False Start, still sells about 500 copies a year. I I forgot how long ago that came out. I want to say it was right around when Butch Davis had a panic attack. How about that putting it this way, just like 2005. And it really detailed how the NFL stuck it to the Browns in the beginning. And it wasn’t as much about Modell and the behind the back deal with Baltimore as it was what happened after that.
David Campbell (05:00.149)
the restart.
Terry (05:00.514)
But here’s where I’m going with this. And the reason why Max and others is like…
I’ve been hitting on this theme this year. They still haven’t had back-to-back winning seasons since Bernie Kozar in the late 80s. It’s preposterous. It’s just flat out preposterous. And they look set up, as Max mentioned, in 2020 to do it in 21. And of course they didn’t. Baker gets hurt and Odell’s always open. Remember that one, those wonderful days and all that. And then 22.
It just, you know, stuff happens there. I mean, you just, so then 23, they go 11 and six last year. And you think you got to be set up to have a winning season again. Now I, I went nine and eight. I have to admit, I’ve been pessimistic kind of overall about them, but I still thought they could have a dominant defense and we’ve not seen that.
David Campbell (06:00.924)
I said 11 and 6 because I didn’t see why they would be worse. Exactly what you’re talking about. Yeah.
Terry (06:03.886)
Right. Yeah, they should. And so here we are at one and three. Now that’s a difficult thing, I think, for fans to follow. On top of it, the one and three comes against teams that are five and 11. Now if they ran like once in a while, they put one of those gauntlet schedules early for the, for the Browns. You know, here comes Pittsburgh and two, two weeks later, here comes Baltimore. And then they throw in, you know, somebody good on the West coast or something. That’s not been the case at all.
And the only team they beat is poor Jacksonville, which looks like it can’t, well, we’ll never win another game. They’re into one of those. and so this has been fun.
David Campbell (06:46.022)
Yeah. And in addition to the fans just being demoralized, here’s another email we got Terry, longtime listener, Andy gets Andy says, Hey, Terry and Dave, why did the Browns decide to change their offensive scheme from last year and install a new offense? This is another theme that you’ve been hitting. So far, it looks like a really bad idea. While the offense last year needed some improvements, it was able to help deliver an 11 and six record despite needing to have four different starting quarterbacks. And when Joe Flacco was at the controls, it looked pretty good.
Terry (06:49.934)
Sure. Yeah.
Terry (06:58.306)
that.
Yeah.
David Campbell (07:14.278)
Why was a new offense even needed? It just provides an excuse for not paying attention to fundamentals and putting in the necessary time and practice to have a well-functioning offense. So thanks for that, Andy. And again, if you want to write us, hit us at sports at cleveland.com, put Terry’s talking in the subject line. So I kind of wanted to put those two emails at the top, Terry, because I thought it encapsulated the two angles that you took coming out of the game this weekend.
Terry (07:32.75)
Sure, I think they’re fair. Absolutely. Well, number one is I think the most important offensive stat most of the time, not always, is points scored. Because you have to score points as part of the offense. And it’s one of the biggest bottom lines you could have. I’m sure there’s some analytics, I some other things. They were 10th in points scored last year. 10th in points scored.
Cycling from Watson to PJ Walker to DTR to Flacco 10th and that was basically punting on that last game game 17 I don’t know what the score was but and they played a quarterback whose name I can’t remember Why would you remember that? Okay. Well anyway It deserved to be forgotten but what up my my
David Campbell (08:20.06)
Driscoll, Jeff Driscoll, right? I have no idea.
Terry (08:29.89)
bigger underlying thing is so if I’m sitting here going okay we’re 10th in scoring.
Kevin Stefanski could roll out a list of quarterbacks who have either had their best careers with him or close. And they are not Patrick Mahomes or whatever. They are Case Keenum, I believe 14 and three when you’re starting with him in Minnesota. And they are Baker, know, now Baker’s starting to play like he did here in 20, but that was his best year. They are Jacobi Brissette.
Where by the way, when they switched from Berset to De’Chon Watson at that point, while the Browns are four and seven, they were 10th in scoring. The problem was the defense was horrendous and Flacco, know, probably not as bad as he’s been like an MVP or whatever in the Superbowl, but that was big time quarterback there for him. So there’s inherently good things in this offense.
for a variety of different type of quarterbacks. And I’m just saying, I don’t know what offense is best suited for Watson at this point in his career. I pointed out that from 2018 through 2020, in that three year period, he led the NFL in being sacked. Right, I think behind about eight or 10 was Russell Wilson. So you’re gonna, he’s gonna get sacked.
Now a difference I believe, I really do want to know what you think, is his athleticism I don’t think is quite the same.
David Campbell (10:14.382)
as it was five years ago, which we talked about.
Terry (10:16.46)
Yeah, basically, yeah, we’re looking 20. So 20 is his last good year. One, two, three. So three and a half years ago.
David Campbell (10:26.076)
Well, when Kevin Stefanski came here, I remember we did a bunch of stuff about what Kevin Stefanski is going to bring to the offense. And it was zone blocking with a good running back behind it and play action off of that. It was clear as day. And that was what he was bringing to Cleveland. And then the Watson trade apparently has changed that entire thing where now the Browns hardly do any
Terry (10:36.992)
Yes.
Terry (10:40.971)
Absolutely.
David Campbell (10:55.506)
play action off of a normal set with a quarterback under center. And the, the, you’ve written about this, Terry, the, running game is like, I don’t think it’s zone blocking anymore. And I don’t know what we’re watching. And it seems like, and like you’ve said, it’s a little bit of everything and they don’t, it seems like Kevin Stefanski has changed everything. The offense was for Deshaun Watson. And now they just have square peg round hole and
It’s one in three and they can’t make a third down conversion to save their lives. It’s sad. It’s sad to see.
Terry (11:29.327)
The Stefan is to fancy offense is the Shanahan offense, which goes back to the Help me David. He coached Denver for a while Kubiak. Yeah, and I guess Even a little bit of Bill Walsh is in there too if you could there but the point is a lot of quarterbacks How about Brock Purdy is successful in this offense Jimmy Garoppolo was successful in this offense
David Campbell (11:41.799)
Kubiak? Yeah, Mike Shanahan, Kubiak, and then it just kind of went from there.
Terry (11:58.862)
This offense is taking a lot of, would be kind to say average quarterbacks and made them look really good. Baker is in an offense very similar down there as he was up here in Tampa Bay. So I remember I even told Andy Berry straight out in training camp, we had a casual conversation. said, Andrew, I like the other offense. And I kind of went through that whole litany of quarterbacks and
And while we’re trying to just get see what we could do with the Sean and deal, take the team. Remember the good to great higher level. And now there is a thing in the corporate world or sometimes when you go good to great, you go bad first before you get there. Well, they’ve covered that part.
David Campbell (12:44.4)
Wow. All right. Well, I don’t know what I’m supposed to go with that one, but it’s true. all right, Terry. So I, if you listen to Kevin Stefanski and any NFL coach, they are loathe to single people out, especially after a loss when things are emotional. And we heard that a lot of people and Stefanski talking about the need to get on the same page and miscommunications. And there was just a lot of generic terms slapped on, on kind of what’s going on with the Browns right now on both sides of the ball.
Terry (12:47.604)
Yeah
Terry (13:00.494)
Mm-hmm.
Terry (13:12.099)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (13:14.45)
I think we should maybe drill down on this a little bit and where are you seeing the biggest issues and what do you think they need to do to fix it? Because they got to do it now, this week.
Terry (13:17.335)
Okay.
Terry (13:22.508)
I wish I knew something. I wish I knew something about, I know Lance Rison who’s written some stuff on that. I wish if he could even drill deeper on the offensive line, I believe these guys look confused. You know, I do quite a bit of radio work for WTAM and one of the hosts was, I’m watching DeWa and it looks to me like he just doesn’t care or whatever. And I said, well,
we stop that that he doesn’t care card he looks to me now one is he could be heavier and the knee thing could be making him slower but I also see confusion and I see confusion with other guys they go how could two guys rush and he not block anybody and I’m like I don’t think he knows who he’s supposed to block and I don’t think he’s alone those rushes up the middle now David you were you know you you know more there
Alright, I’m stopping. What about all that?
David Campbell (14:25.02)
Well, it’s funny you went here because this is number one on my list. And I don’t know a whole lot about Andy Dickerson and what kind of an offensive line coach he is, but I like watching, you know, I went to Illinois, I like watching the fighting line at football games and everything. And there’s been years when you couldn’t watch them because they were so bad. But if you watch that team now with Brett Bielema, there’s never a guy out of place and they’re always in the right spot. And if they’re going to lose, they might lose on talent, but they’re not going to lose because they
Terry (14:28.098)
Okay.
Terry (14:32.558)
you
Terry (14:47.469)
Yeah.
David Campbell (14:53.158)
didn’t know their assignment and didn’t try to carry it out to the best they could. And I feel like that was the same thing that would happen on a Bill Callahan offensive line. Like you would see Blake Hans and Christian and they were throwing guys in there left and right when they had all the injuries over the last couple of years. And when Bill Callahan was here, those guys might get beat on talent or size or speed or something, and they might lose a battle or two, but they were always in the right spot and they were always trying to hold the fort. And you’re right, Terry.
Terry (14:59.618)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (15:23.996)
The what’s the old saying? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me, right? Like the Giants didn’t, I don’t think they blitzed very much at all because all they had to do was run a line stunt where two linemen would go hard to the left of the Browns offense and the defensive end would loop around and come right up the middle in that game a couple of weeks ago. And then we come to last Sunday and the Raiders are like, Hey, you know what, let’s do the same thing. And they still couldn’t pick it up. They weren’t handing guys off and they weren’t freeing up the guy in the middle to pick up the guy swinging around the stunt and coming up the middle. was coming up on blocked. they got to fix that. Cause if they don’t fix that, anything else they do isn’t really gonna matter so much, especially on third down, so you’re right. That’s number one.
Terry (16:28.014)
I was told there were some quote subtle changes on the offensive line. Of course, my thought was why? mean, why now Callahan is like the Carl Willis of position coaches, you know, and case could now be made that you go back to guys like Leo Mazzoni in Atlanta. Johnny Sane was a several teams are going way back to these great pitching coaches. know, Carl Willis is in that group.
Where periodically they discussed, should these guys be in the hall of fame? And Willis did it again with these no name relievers and that there’s just something about these guys. In fact, cause I have more of a baseball acclamation. I remember early on when I started covering some football and that they said the offensive line coaches are like pitching coaches. They live in their own world and it’s just a different mentality they have to have. Callahan is one of the greats.
Now Callahan apparently could be a real pain in the butt to play for. Because some of those guys sound like very happy that he was gone. I wonder how happy they are now, by the way.
David Campbell (17:37.872)
And again, is like Andy Dickerson might turn this around right away. part of it is the X is an O’s part and technique. And the other part is getting the guys to play better, right? And that’s the job of the offensive line coach. So they might turn it around. I don’t know. just.
Terry (17:46.008)
Yeah.
Terry (17:49.986)
I mean, David, in general offensive linemen, at least I have found my experience is that they are very unselfish and team oriented. So the idea that like they don’t care, they can’t even be doing this to go after their own stats. they’re confused. I’m convinced of that. They are confused and simplify it. I don’t know how you do it. I remember one of the greatest
college coaches ever is Larry Karras at Mount Union. Turned down several division one jobs and that. And Karras would, you know, generally he coached the offense. He called the plays there. And he’s had a couple of great defensive coordinators over the years before he retired. And one of the defensive coordinators told me, you know, Larry was yelling at them. They’re blowing some coverage or something. And the guy said, well, coach, what do want me to do? Because that’s your job.
Simplify it. All I know is they don’t know who to cover. Now just fix it. Well, that’s what I would say to Andy Dickerson. That’s your job. Simplify it and fix it. I’m tired of seeing people just blow by people. That’s reason I’m tired of it. It’s your job. Now I’m sure Larry could have done it if it owned, but I think he was challenging him to, and he said it put in, it clarified, this is what the coordinator told me, for him, what he needed to do. It clarified it.
Instead of trying to out scheme everybody, just simplify it and fix it. And also it made people more accountable to their, what was going on. I mean, that’s why we’ve had a few blown coverages since Schwartz came in, but not a ton. It’s not like it was before. Generally we know when a guy gets beat and I prefer that. Well, that’s got, that’s gotta be on the line. I just, I don’t know how they watch it week after week, David. I don’t, how do they watch it?
David Campbell (19:49.616)
I don’t know. I don’t know. But like I said, to see what we saw against the Giants and then to see the same thing play out a week later, it’s just really concerning if you’re a Browns fan.
Terry (19:59.946)
And stop with this Jack Cocklin thing. He played 22 snaps last year. The Juan Jones played more snaps than anybody else that tackled last year. played 55%. Next was Garen Christian, or help me, I always put Garen, I get it wrong. He was next. Third was Wills. So those are your tackles from last year. And Joe Flacco, now they get really angry about that. He comes in here and…
They have no problems blocking for Joe Flack.
David Campbell (20:31.602)
And I don’t think, I think, yeah.
Terry (20:32.704)
And he had no tackles.
David Campbell (20:35.536)
Yeah, so anyway, all Well, that’s that’s something we both had on our list here. Any anywhere else you want to go here in terms of things that need immediate fixing?
Terry (20:37.503)
Enough of that. Okay.
Terry (20:44.545)
Yeah, I would ask what is what the pass rush basically the pass rush is miles garret or that’s about it. And I don’t know why they’re not getting, you they put a lot of money in the defensive line. That would be my next question to Schwartz. Do you, your, your middle of the line is a not stopping to run and B not pressuring the quarterback. Other than that, it looks good. So what is it doing and why is that happening? So I would say those defensive tackles.
from Tomlinson to Mohurst to who’s the guy that they brought it not just Jefferson, Quentin Jefferson. I’m sure I’m probably forgetting somebody else. What are they doing? Is there a schematic thing that’s a problem there or what?
Because the defense was going to save this season, David, and while I’ve been harping on the offense, I’m almost ready to give up on the offense being very good. They have the defenses to get back to dominating games, much like the steward defense has been doing.
David Campbell (21:52.274)
Well, I’m going to stay on the defense and I’m it’s interesting to me how teams have been going at the Browns on the edges. And I think that Jim Schwartz is got to get more out of his defensive backs and Grant Delpit and guys got to come up and tackle because teams are going to keep running these jet sweeps and run into the outside of this defense away from Miles Garrett if they need to. They’re finding success there and
Terry (22:00.878)
Mm-hmm.
Terry (22:11.811)
Yeah.
David Campbell (22:20.966)
this guy they’re playing Sunday is going to be doing plenty of that.
Terry (22:24.046)
And then they punch them up the middle. They run wide, then they surprise them and punch them up the middle. And that’s a good point. By the way, I looked at the play like three times. I’m still stunned on that reverse that the Raiders ran near the goal line, that it worked. Cause usually when you do that, that thing is so slow and developing. I mean, never the kind of stuff Freddie Kitchens did that would just go sideways. And I don’t think that play…
was any quicker than the stuff kitchens ran just most of the time the defense because it’s so condensed near the goal line like that you you nail them in the backfield but these guys are just like i don’t know what that is i mean i a lot of frustration here
David Campbell (23:11.932)
Yeah. And I think they have to get, you’re right about the defense, Terry. They’ve got to get more out of their best players on defense. I I was looking at the PFF grades. Denzel Ward was a 49. Like, you know, that’s Greg Newsome 52. Like Denzel Ward is supposed to be your best cornerback and he’s had a great first few weeks, but they’re not, they’re not forcing turnovers and
Terry (23:15.533)
Yeah.
Terry (23:22.197)
Mm-hmm.
Terry (23:33.355)
Yeah, he was not very good, but I don’t think, I don’t, I don’t think nuisance in very good period.
David Campbell (23:39.748)
I don’t think so either. did want to mention we were looking, I think we mentioned last week, said that Ronnie Hickman is probably going to get more snaps at safety after his game against the Giants. And he actually had the most defensive snaps of anybody on the defense last week with 59. Rodney McLeod had 23. So that was interesting to see that happen.
Terry (23:41.23)
You know.
Terry (23:46.808)
Yeah.
Terry (23:55.68)
Yeah, I mean the offense, let’s flip back to them, they score six touchdowns in four games. Six.
David Campbell (24:02.834)
Well, and again, their best receiver is not playing up to his standards.
Terry (24:07.488)
No it isn’t. they do miss Najoko. But still, 6 in 4 games.
David Campbell (24:14.002)
All right. Well, Terry, I think you mentioned Baker Mayfield a little bit earlier. He’s got the buck. The buck’s off to a really fast start. He’s had another game last week where I don’t know. I should have pulled his stats. I didn’t. I think he threw for 300 yards again, right? 340 was it? Yeah.
Terry (24:15.457)
Okay.
Terry (24:19.502)
Mm-hmm.
Terry (24:29.742)
Mm-hmm. Well, I want to add by the way on the offensive line I knew I forgot one and James Hudson played 45 % of the snaps at right tackle last year or left tackle, excuse me They were basically they were alternating working Jones Christian and Hudson after Willis got hurt and that was that was Callahan doing Carl Willis with the bullpen
That’s what he was doing, taking these guys who are no names and turning them into very viable tackles. So sorry about that, but okay, go ahead. Yeah.
David Campbell (25:09.426)
No, no, I’m glad you did. Okay, so they gave me a chance to pull up Mayfield’s stats here on my phone. So they beat the Eagles 33-16 over the weekend. Mayfield was 30 of 47. 347 yards, two touchdowns.
Terry (25:13.218)
Yes.
Terry (25:21.582)
I watched the first quarter of that game. I think he completed 12 of his first 13. was like he was, they always say throwing in the air in those practices. That’s what it looked like against the Eagles. But we’ve seen it when Baker gets really hot. I mean, he cooks.
David Campbell (25:39.858)
So if you’re a Browns fan, Terry, how should you be feeling about Baker Mayfield’s success in Tampa? Let’s hear what you think on that.
Terry (25:43.528)
Alright, mean you could now there’s two theories One is had the Browns not for one have Baker Mayfield remember my theory Kickers and quarterbacks are not football players Verbe tackling is verboten Don’t do it big red line through it. Of course. He threw an interception I gained two or three of 21. I forgot what it was tries to tackle a guy Jams his shoulder and down here we go
rest of the year. Now, Baker fans will say had they just not played him, in fact we got so sick of me dragging Case Keenum out, you know, but I wrote about four columns of his time to play him, but had they done that, maybe this whole thing is better. Maybe he’s able to ride it out in Cleveland and he’s still here. Okay, then the other theory on Baker is Baker got to be kind of too big for himself, all the progressive commercials and everything else. He needed to be humbled.
David Campbell (26:23.634)
Ha
Terry (26:43.282)
And humbled he was because he was cut by the Browns, our trader for six from pick. Basically it’s like being cut goes to Carolina, the worst team in the league. doesn’t make it through the season. He is, then he is what then he is waived, picked up by the Rams, had a couple of nice games, not offered a contract by the Rams though. And ends up going to Tampa on a one year. Basically it was an, I forgot what it was, but it was a basic one year contract, kind of a Jacoby reset deal. And.
At that point, Baker was very interested in really reviving his career and basically growing up as a football player and as a person. And that’s what happened. And now we’re back to seeing the Baker that was good in 2018 and was good in 2020 and was good in 2023. And now he’s finally putting together back to back good seasons in 24. Which do you subscribe to Dr. Campbell?
David Campbell (27:42.148)
of which choices.
Terry (27:43.584)
You have the choices of the Brown screwed him up and they could have fixed this just by benching him and letting him heal and let him come back. Or even had they done that Baker’s ego was too big and he needed to be deflated a few times to get back to what works.
David Campbell (28:02.096)
Yeah. So I think Jimmy Watkins, our colleague got into this a couple of weeks ago and he was writing about that if all that stuff hadn’t happened, he wouldn’t become who he is. Right. And I agree. Like the relationship had run its course. I think the thing that ended it was the public calling out of the in-game adjustments and the coaching not being good enough that Baker did. And that pretty much soured the entire organization on him in addition to whatever else was happening behind the scenes.
Terry (28:12.767)
Mm-hmm.
Terry (28:23.64)
Yep.
David Campbell (28:32.187)
and they decided they could not work with this guy anymore and it was time to cut bait. And so I’m trying to think how to answer your question, but like he, he. Yeah.
Terry (28:39.488)
Now, okay, now a Baker advocate would say, okay, that was immature, but he was put in the position of playing when he was hurt, and then you get frustrations and all that stuff. I’m just saying that’s the Baker advocate. And had he just been benched for four weeks or six weeks, given that thing a chance to heal or be surgically repaired if that’s what was required.
then you would have had a different baker.
David Campbell (29:13.18)
And that’s certainly a viable theory, these guys, they have to earn their keep every week, right? And the Browns are thinking like, can I work with this guy next week, next month, next year, for the next five years? And the answer they came up with was no. So.
Terry (29:20.087)
Yep.
Terry (29:29.954)
Now I was told by a top Browns official that they were willing to come back with Baker if the whole thing for Watson fell apart. Cause I put my, think Ryan from Atlanta was available back then. And there was maybe somebody else, well, even Jacoby, but you know.
Matt Ryan was the one I saw well, you know, you could have gotten just kind of gone in middle something like Matt Ryan I go no no, weren’t gonna do that We were either gonna go get the Sean or try to come back with Baker So in other words if that’s guys telling me the truth and sometimes what they tell you is true and sometimes it’s like You know Just kind of recasting Revisionist history So although he told me that before
baker ended up doing anything this is like during his early time in carolina so i don’t know what to make of it
David Campbell (30:31.794)
It’s a documentary waiting to be made, a 30 for 30 or something.
Terry (30:33.87)
Yeah. Now flip side is this. I love to see guys revive their careers like that. He was written off and watching what he’s done in Tampa Bay. It’s impressive. It really is. And because if you think about Baker, you know, all the offensive coordinators and coaching changes and that, I mean, he’s been through a lot from unstable situations.
And Tampa was in a bad spot when they brought him in there. mean, who the heck wants to replace Tom Brady? And, and that, and he’s done very, very well. So, it’s fun to watch and speculate about, and maybe somebody will write us an email and they have their Baker theories, but it looks really bad for the home orange helmets right now. And Baker Mayfield is lighten it up. That’s all I am enlightened it up now for a year plus four games or whatever.
David Campbell (31:29.308)
Yeah, and we talk about this occasionally, Terry, but sometimes guys come into the league 20, 21, 22, and it takes them, they need to mature and understand what being a pro is all about and what he’s 29 now. And like, even if they kept him, who knows if it would have been the same kind of thing.
Terry (31:35.885)
Yeah.
Terry (31:41.006)
and
Terry (31:46.574)
Well, I what could Jared Goff has gone through and he’s really good again. By the way, here’s the thing. I know this for a fact. This is the year, when Goff was in the draft, the Browns were going to take him until they found out. I think they had the number two pick that year. And that was the year that, they found out that Goff was going to, where did he go? Los Angeles, I think the Rams.
And that ended up to like 15 trades of that number two pick. They didn’t want, they did not want to take Carson Wentz. So, but golf played well, then he got written off. Then he goes to Detroit. It took a little while there to get it going and now he’s good.
David Campbell (32:37.316)
Yep. So all right. Well, Terry, let’s move to the game coming up. The Browns are playing at Washington and the commanders, their rookie quarterback, Jaden Daniels is tearing it up. think the commanders have punted one time in three weeks. Cliff Kingsbury is running their offense. And I found this stat interesting. This is from Dan Pazuda and he’s from the 33rd team, which is a website I know you talk about. Yep.
Terry (32:52.802)
Wow.
Terry (33:01.944)
When my foot, yeah.
David Campbell (33:03.832)
And it’s lot, Michael Lombardi, former football people are behind this site, but and Joe Banner. Yep.
Terry (33:08.158)
Yeah, Joe Banner is, and I think Joe Banner and Mike Tanabon have a stake in it, by the way. And so they recruit a lot of the different people.
David Campbell (33:15.788)
All right.
Yeah, so Dan Pazuda had this chart about Washington’s tendencies offensively. In week one, they ran 19 % play action passes. In week two, they ran 22%, 22.7. Then in week three, they ran 27 % play action passes. And in week four, they ran 34%, 34.2 % play action passes.
Terry (33:22.766)
Yeah
Terry (33:35.651)
Mm-hmm.
Terry (33:40.066)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (33:41.348)
So we see that line going up for the amount of play action that the commanders are running, but I’ve been watching what teams are trying to do to the Browns. And a lot of that is get the ball out fast before Miles Garrett can get in there and the pass rush comes. So I wonder what’s going to happen. I just thought that was an interesting trend line. And I’m curious to see how much play action the commanders run this week. So.
Terry (34:05.452)
Although one of the arguments could be because the Browns just got gashed for 150 yards by the Raiders, that play action could be effective because then they know we got to stop the run some and buys you a little time at least Garrett. That’s one thought. Whatever they’re doing, it’s working just fine since they don’t even need any stinking puns. They just play.
David Campbell (34:18.608)
That’s a point.
David Campbell (34:33.247)
Alright, so that’s Sunday coming up in Washington. A one o’clock kickoff and we’ll see what happens if the Browns can turn around. They’ve got a lot of work to do this week. So alright Terry, let’s take a break. We will get into the Guardians when we get back the playoff bound Guardians. I want to ask you Terry, so Steven Vogt was asked what was his favorite moment of the season of the regular season so far and I wanted to ask you what your favorite moment of the regular season for the Guardians was. So we’ll get into that and more when we return.
and Terry’s talking.
Terry (35:03.522)
We’ll be right back.
David Campbell (35:04.658)
All right.
David Campbell (35:46.033)
you
Terry (37:32.598)
Okay. Okay.
David Campbell (37:33.842)
All right, and this will carry on. All right, five, four, three, two, one.
David Campbell (37:43.974)
Hey, we’re back on Terry’s talking. Hey, quick reminder about Terry’s newsletter. Terry’s doing a weekly newsletter. comes out every Wednesday at noon. If you want to sign up, go to cleveland.com slash Pluto. You’ll find all of Terry’s stuff there. And at the top, there is a blue bar. Click on that and you can subscribe. I think there is a two week free trial. So you can kind of get the insights of Terry’s thinking about a different teams and some great stories in there. So all right, Terry, guardians are.
prepping for Saturday’s start of the AL division series. They’re going to open at home. I thought it was interesting and I wanted to get your thoughts on this kind of as the regular season wrapped up, the reporters were asking Steven Vogt, like what was your favorite moment of your first major league season as a manager? And he said it was the season high seven game loss streak that they had from, I think it was August 3rd through 9th and they saw their lead diminish from six games to
a game and a half in the division. And Stephen Vogt’s point was like that they learned who they were as they went through that. And that was why it was his favorite moment because they came through that, they started winning again and they basically put the division away a few weeks after that. What was your favorite moment? I wanted to kind of get your thoughts on that.
Terry (38:57.741)
Yeah.
Terry (39:01.366)
Okay, I got two they both involve Emmanuel Cossay and I think it’s symbolic of made the team there was a game in Minnesota I didn’t write down the date it was when He loaded the bases with no outs and then he struck out a hitter and Willie Castro and then got tried Trey Lauren Lauren Lauren to hit and do a double play and that
David Campbell (39:02.962)
All right.
Terry (39:30.102)
was really kind of nailing the twins down. And I remember he was getting squeezed by the umpire there. He also just seemed like he is his whole wind. Everything was off and he battled through it, kept the five to three lead. That was his 35th safe. And then the other was again, bases loaded, nobody out. This is against the Reds. And this is when he was going for the team record 47 saves.
and he gets out of that thing. See that was the bullpen boil down to the end where he’s saving it. But you saw so many of the other relievers do the same things in clutch situations. They rather than panicked, they just sound the old thing, dig deeper, throw harder and throw strikes and get out of it. And Klaus say,
he makes it look easy and it’s not. I mean, it’s just not. In fact, most of the time we haven’t seen too many of those. And that’s why I kind of liked those bases loaded nobody out. kind of, made a mess of things and then I got out of it as opposed to just, the umpire is messing with me or somebody made an error, you know, any of that. So those two to me were emblematic of the season.
David Campbell (40:45.276)
Those are good. Yeah. I, that first one, especially, I remember that game and there was so much discussion after that one about how that was one of those games that felt like more than one game worth because it really put the guardians back on solid footing and they felt like they could take it from there. And it was, yeah, I remember that game specifically.
Terry (40:55.735)
Yeah.
Terry (41:05.888)
and just decimated the twins. were a couple of times they just took the twins out. mean, the twins were, this is the second time where the twins thought in three years, because in 22, they were fairly close to the guardians going into September. And they thought, you know, they would get them and they didn’t. this time, this may actually end up costing some jobs over there in Minnesota, both GM and.
David Campbell (41:09.882)
Yeah, it was the beginning of the end that game I think that you highlighted there.
Terry (41:34.546)
manager will see how that plays out but that could happen.
David Campbell (41:39.844)
Go ahead, sorry.
Terry (41:42.862)
It’s just remarkable to see what he’s done. And now I want to mention too that I forgot how long his contract is. We could look it up, but he’s got all kinds of deals going and team options and that, but okay, we’ll go ahead.
David Campbell (41:59.602)
Yeah, I’ve got it right here. He’s making, he’s making 2.9 this season. Next year is 4.9 and then he’s making 6.4 million in 2026. Then in 27 and 28, there are club options for 10 million each season. And then he’s an unrestricted free agent in 2029. So they’ve got four more seasons of team control.
Terry (42:15.725)
Okay.
Terry (42:19.85)
Yep. See what happened. He, I mean, he, you know, was basically on a minimum contract and they came to him, I think after a second year and offered him this longer deal and they were mentioning, well, why would he take that or whatever? Well, I remember when he signed it, it was the spring of 22. I can picture it now. We were down in Goodyear and
He’s smiling and his family’s like all around. mean, there were like six or eight of the Colossae clan there. And we didn’t know what was going on later on. Then we find out the next morning they announced that, and they were all happy. mean, they’re, it kind of seemed strange for a spring game that the deal was signed. And then you look around and you say, he just took care of his family. And there, I mean, he’s from the Dominican.
It’s like when Carlos Santana signed his extension, his agent at the time told me the same thing. He said, yeah, I know we’re going to be second guests on this, but you know, Carlos now is set. And he said, if he wants to, of course he signed several contracts since then Santana has. And on top of it, you know how I am when you’re a pitcher and they throw big money at you early on and you’re way away from free agency, take the money.
David Campbell (43:44.38)
Thank you.
Terry (43:46.028)
You never know when that ulnar nerve and your ligament and all that other junk’s gonna go in your elbow.
David Campbell (43:54.866)
Yeah, and Terry, he’s only what 26 years old, I think, this year. So he’ll be still in the prime of his career when this contract is over and he’ll have security and then he can go for something bigger if he wants. So yeah.
Terry (44:04.942)
Absolutely. It’s just…
Now I saw a stat, was a story I think it was by Bob Nightingale and it was a yeah, Nightingale. And he said at the current right now, 36 % of major league pitchers have had Tommy John surgery.
And then he bore down into like, you know, how many have had a two and all kinds of stuff. So if you haven’t had yours yet and cause a has not. It makes a lot of sense to get it. And I would argue, even if you’ve had it, it still takes a lot of sense to get it. Because if you get another one, you’re in big trouble. Ask Mike Covinger.
David Campbell (44:51.73)
Okay, Terry, so Saturday’s coming up faster. We’re taping this late Tuesday afternoon. The Guardians are looking at the Tigers or the Astros. Who do you think would be a better matchup for the Guardians?
Terry (45:01.918)
come on David, who do you think?
David Campbell (45:05.858)
You tell me I want to hear your thoughts first. Nobody.
Terry (45:07.246)
I mean who wants to play the Astros? Yeah, I mean they ask those guys I mean whether they were cheating or not cheating they’re still really good and they’re playoff tested and they’re just I you know, I Actually enjoy watching games in that part from that point of view I wouldn’t mind going to see it But to me the first of all the Guardians and Tigers would be so much fun my fear
for that matchup is simply that the Tigers, because they came from so far back to make the playoffs, it’s almost like they’ve won their pennant. Now, A.J. Hench has been, you he was a manager of them cheating Astros back in the old days. And so he’s, I mean, he’s very good, but I’d rather take on those guys than take on Houston. I’m not interested in seeing Houston at all, but that’s probably who they’ll see.
David Campbell (46:03.282)
Yeah, the X factor really is Tarek Skubal for Detroit. He’s probably going win the Cy Young Award, 18 game winner, what, 2.39? There’s days off. It’s not like it’s five days in a row. They’re going to use him as much as they can if it’s Detroit. And that’s not fun, betting against him. So that’s the only thing that is most concerning about the Tigers, I would say, is the
Terry (46:12.172)
Yeah.
Terry (46:16.109)
Yeah.
Terry (46:21.71)
Sure.
Terry (46:25.986)
No, no it isn’t. Yeah. I mean, let’s take the lineups out and that so, but it’s fun. I am so glad. I mean, you got three central teams in the playoffs, three.
David Campbell (46:40.1)
It’s not easy to do and especially the size of the markets involved there. So that’s quite an accomplishment. So, all right. So the wild card series are all going on. The guardians will be waiting and they will be playing their first game on Saturday. Then the second game is also in Cleveland on Monday. Then it goes Wednesday, Thursday, Saturday next week. So some off days in there and it will be really fun. There’s nothing like playoff baseball. So.
Terry (46:45.482)
Mm-hmm.
Terry (47:04.238)
Have you seen anything about the rotation from Cleveland? I guess 5-e…
David Campbell (47:09.154)
Only that, yeah, Bybee did a what? A simulated game yesterday on Monday and that people are saying that he will probably be starting game one, but that’s all that I think is official at this point.
Terry (47:12.418)
Yeah.
Terry (47:17.292)
Yeah. Who would you do to came to?
David Campbell (47:21.916)
Probably Matthew Boyd.
Terry (47:23.34)
Yeah, I go back and forth between Boyd and Lively. I’m not, I’m not sold on Gavin Williams on this at all. It just seems like to me, he’s been so inconsistent. I mean, I would rather go, probably Boyd. I mean, Lively, I mean, this is like a guy, he’s like a guy walking a tightrope and he’s carrying like a
you know, hippopotamus on his back. How’s he staying, you know, how’s he staying up? He’s wobbling and that it’s not a knock. It’s an admiration because I grew up watching a lot of pictures like him. Guys work in the corners and, and not worried about velocity and spin rates and that just worried about finding a way to keep the ball down and get people out. so I hope it works, but I have to admit it’s, it’s a, it’s a tough thing to watch, especially if it’d be against that Houston lineup. So.
David Campbell (48:23.388)
Yep. All right.
Terry (48:23.618)
We’ll see. But they also can go to the bullpen very, very early and very, very quickly in these games with those days off.
David Campbell (48:30.788)
Absolutely. All right, let’s move to the calves, Terry. I know that you have been out at the media availabilities the last few days here. What are some takeaways? Donovan Mitchell was talking and Kenny Atkinson was talking and we heard from a lot of people. What are some things that struck you?
Terry (48:49.122)
Well, one, just was listening to Mitchell where he said by, first of all, that his initial impression once he got to Cleveland spent a whole time was very positive. He told his mother that, that he liked it there. And I think he was probably trying to even at that point, let the family know that coming, remember he’s from the New York area. His dad works in player relations for the Mets. So that, Hey, I may not be coming back to New York.
just be aware of that if this thing goes the way it is and then He said by the middle of last year or this past season he was pretty sure he was staying and Remember that we’ve discussed this before but I want to reiterate any agent that would have told Mitchell to sign that contract after his first year should have been fired because he wasn’t able to get the type of money and
Leverage and things that he got this year. So it was just much better for him to do it as he did it and That’s the thing to keep in mind. So even though he was very very inclined to staying and then also if you’re Mitchell
One of my things is if I don’t like if if not if you procrastinate a lot this procrastinators don’t listen to this because this will be another excuse for you to do nothing. But the average person who you know likes is open to making decisions don’t make one unless it’s kind of time to make one. So if you’re Mitchell going to second year even if you’re inclined to stay you want to make sure things go OK. You want to watch.
you know, which way they’re going. And of course, at the start of the second year, I don’t think anybody thought JB Bickerstaff would be fired at the end of that year. And of course he did. So that gave him time to see, he was probably very aware of what the coaching search was going. And he clearly had a couple of talks with Atkinson before the thing was finalized. And then they brought in Johnny Bryant from the Knicks who was, he was close to in Utah. So in other words, he was
Terry (51:03.598)
treated as a superstar not that he’s picking the coach but he was made aware of what they were doing and I will really think that if he sticks a few more years in Cleveland this is almost like a Jose Ramirez staying move now granted it’s not that he took less but the basketball thing is just different you know you can because of caps and that and It would have been very easy for him to just say all right. You know I am going to
I got a year left in my contract and I want to play the whole thing out. And if you don’t like it, you can trade me. And so instead he didn’t do that. He signed. And now if you’re Mitchell and he doesn’t talk about this, but remember his knee got very cranky last year. I think he missed 20 some games. And then he had the dreaded, pulled a calf muscle to take the money.
You were a good team, take the money. And remember he was already showing up at guardians games and doing Brown’s games and doing stuff like that. I just have thought from the moment this guy arrived, he’s a class act. And so that’s along with the fact when you hand him the ball and that offense revolves around him. I just think the cat, the cats are better.
David Campbell (52:29.234)
All right, Terry, and you know. Yeah.
Terry (52:30.444)
By the way, I did ask Kenny Atkinson that question. I said, all right, Kenny, this is an amateur opinion. And he’s smiling. said, now when I’m sure you looked at game tapes or whatever, but those 20 some games or whatever it was where the ball was in Donovan’s hands. And you he was the son and we in the solar system, the other planets went around him. That ball moved better than any time in the season.
They want a lot more. It was more fluid. And, so what about that? He goes, so I guess I get the professional opinion. said, yeah, go ahead. And then he went into like Garland, you know, how we can score and this and that, but he never directly addressed the contrast between, and I added the stats show that their best back court was Max Druse.
and Mitchell and he knew that he didn’t go there. He didn’t go a couple of places because I think the decision has been made that, you know, they’re going with the current backcourt.
David Campbell (53:41.65)
Oof. And the honeymoon continues because he didn’t go there. So, I was just going to mention real quick on the Donovan Mitchell thing too. You talked about him wanting to make sure things were being done right. And the roster was going to be right. Like this is a lot different than the LeBron situation where it went like year to year. And it’s like, we’re going to bring in Shaq and we’re going to, they’re just throwing stuff onto the roster to try and keep LeBrons.
Terry (53:42.158)
Yes
Terry (53:55.139)
Mm-hmm.
Terry (54:01.1)
Yeah.
Terry (54:05.389)
lord.
David Campbell (54:11.346)
hopes positive and keep them around. they’ve got a window here where they’ve got three, four years with this young core that they can get some stuff done. So that is a much better situation.
Terry (54:14.122)
Yeah.
Terry (54:23.054)
And I think, and I really believe that they felt once they, especially after they nailed down Donovan, that allows them to, you know, they extended Jared Allen, they extended Evan. So they’ve got them, those guys set up. Now you may say, boy, those guys making a lot of money. That cap is going to continue to rise and rise and rise. And so they will be able to move some of those guys if need be.
They could trade Jared Allen to like three fourths of the league tomorrow if they wanted to. mean, teams love Jared.
David Campbell (54:57.262)
no doubt. Hey, speaking of Jared Allen, Terry, I was thinking of you. He finally was at media days and had a chance to kind of answer some questions about his rib injury last year. It made me think of you because he was asked about what Marcus Morris said this off season about that he should have played and Jared Allen’s.
Terry (55:04.366)
you
Terry (55:09.452)
Yeah, it was broken. We’ve been saying that from the beginning. It’s broken.
Terry (55:19.383)
Yeah.
David Campbell (55:21.126)
quote was one funny thing that I always laugh at. You never understand how bad a rib injury is until it happens to you. I couldn’t sleep right. I couldn’t sleep right. You roll over, you wake up with pain on the side. It didn’t finally go down until two weeks after the season. It’s just pain for the whole time you try to do anything. So I mean, now I’m fine and I’m fully recovered. It was just a rough couple of months. So that was what he was going through.
Terry (55:28.042)
Amen. That’s correct.
That is it.
Terry (55:38.99)
That is all correct.
Terry (55:45.742)
Yes, as someone who’s broke, broke a couple of ribs in November while hiking, you go to get out of bed and you feel like you’re going to break another one. and the breathing is a problem and you can’t understand how to make it better. Cause you can throw some ice on it. You know, they give you some, you know, whether you want to do Tylenol or something like that, but it’s not like you just take a shot and play. It’s, too big of an area because the odds are.
You don’t break one, he probably broke a couple. Or at least, where’d it go? Cracked them. And this is the second time, I just broke one earlier than many years ago when I fell. That was bad, but this other one where I fell while hiking and separated my right shoulder and then also on the left side were a couple of ribs. That was, it was just awful. And you can’t sleep.
And I could not imagine even, mean, walking quickly hurt and you going up and down the floor and all these people who say these things, if Jared Allen hadn’t played 81 consecutive games before that, I mean, he was so excited with how he was playing in the playoffs. Remember the average like 16 rebounds a game. He was really, he was keeping their head above water in that Orlando series. Cause Donovan was struggling early on in that. So by the way,
There’s another one on the Donovan Mitchell point guard thing who really benefited from that was Jared Allen. Remember how they, they made beautiful music together when they were doing that because it wasn’t just like with Garland run off a pick and then go get a high lob. They were doing all kinds of stuff. Jared Allen was driving to the rim and everything. He was making medium jumpers from the 12 to 15 foot range.
I have to admit, listening to all this, I got fired up about the cows because I, liked the roster. I liked the team. I wasn’t in favor of firing, JB, but I, but I did, if you’re going to do that, I wanted Atkinson because I liked the type of offenses Atkinson ran. I actually told Atkinson that we had a little informal thing and he, he just laughed about that. goes, I said another, you know, kind of another amateur thing, that you’re waiting because believe me, I’m glad I got the job. However that was because.
David Campbell (57:52.102)
JB.
Terry (58:11.918)
He knows at this point in his career, I forgot how old he is, he’s like 50 something, that you’re not gonna get a better one than this. This isn’t JB walking in after John Beeline and that mess they had on the court back then. This team is ready to go somewhere. And it’s in the East, yeah, Boston won the title, but you don’t just sit there and go, boy, there’s like five teams way in front of the cows. I mean, not at all. I mean, I…
I like what they’ve got. mean, Evan Mobley is going to continue to get better. And Jarrett, I think will, you know, as long as he stays healthy, plays well. They got size and we’ll see on Garland, you know, how that goes. The thing I, what I didn’t get a chance to talk to Atkinson about is what do you think happened with, especially Neang and screws to a lesser extent. Remember the playoffs and those guys have had good numbers in the playoffs. They just were terrible.
So that was really discouraging if that was a system thing or, or what I know he stressed and I’m glad he did that. he still wants to keep the defensive component that JB brought in here and that the two big guys are really good to, to that. And all I did ask him about having two small guards with Donovan and, and, Darius. And he said part of that.
then he doubled over into the big guys how their ability to jump out, you know, cover, in other words, they could cover up for it.
David Campbell (59:39.526)
Yep. Okay. Well, we will get the first look at the calves under Kenny Atkinson and what kind of stuff they’re going to be running in their preseason opener. That is a week from today, Tuesday, October 8th. The calves are home against the bulls. It’s coming up fast. The calves are down in Florida today, down at IMG training all week and Chris Fedor is down there with them. So be sure to follow his coverage at cleveland.com slash calves and listen to our wine and gold talk podcast with Chris and Ethan Sands.
Terry (59:50.862)
Wow.
Terry (59:57.206)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (01:00:07.762)
There you go. That’s the plug part of the show. So, all right, we got a couple of emails here before we wrap up, Terry, you ready? One is about a Cleveland sports fans story and the other one is a Cavs question. So this first one is from Darryl L and Darryl says, Hey, Dave and Terry, here’s why I am a Cleveland sports fan. I was born in 1955. I’m such a huge fan of you and your coverage of my favorite teams. grew up in Sheffield Lake and I married an amazing girl from Bay Village. have three children.
Terry (01:00:13.336)
Mm-hmm.
Terry (01:00:19.374)
Okay.
David Campbell (01:00:37.51)
My two boys who are like me, Cleveland sports everything. And my daughter who went to Iowa is an Iowa Hawkeyes fan, go Caitlin Clark. I became a huge Browns fan in 1964 with the championship game when I listened to the game on radio because they would not show it on TV. I am a youth pastor and was a missionary in Costa Rica and have moved and lived in different places all my life. I wish I could just change my sports allegiance, but I can’t.
Terry (01:00:52.62)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (01:01:02.64)
When the Browns left Cleveland, I lived in Illinois and I was so devastated I put all my Brown stuff in the attic not to return. I lived in the Chicago area when the Indians lost to the Cubs in 2016. One of my volunteers was a Cubs fan and when the Indians were up three to one, he gave it up. But I said, this is Cleveland and the fat lady hasn’t sung yet. And you know how that ended. I always have hope, but I have lived through all the Cleveland stuff. One of my best Cleveland sports memories was when I was in Honduras.
Terry (01:01:18.414)
Yeah
David Campbell (01:01:30.608)
Working on a ministry, I started there and could not watch the NBA finals. My son and I were online following the final game against the Warriors. We both balled when LeBron and the team won. I will never forget that special moment and how I shared it with my son. I cannot stop rooting for my team’s win, lose or draw OHIO. I’ll always be a Cleveland fan and I will always read you, Terry, and follow you. Thank you so much for keeping me connected with and connected with my teams. So again, that’s from Darrell L. Thanks, Darrell.
Terry (01:01:56.142)
Cool. Yeah. Yeah, the guys that are missionaries and it’s tough on the families too because put them in different cultures and that it’s a it’s a rough way to go. It’s fascinating to listen to them talk about how they just long for the connection of the sports teams here. It seems like when the people have moved or that
David Campbell (01:01:59.11)
Sounds like you’re doing some important work there.
Terry (01:02:27.488)
The mentioning of the Browns or seeing, you’re living in France now and you see some guy wearing a cow’s jersey. You like almost run up to him and why are you wearing this and where are you from and all that. It’s just an instant bond that it’s like this thing, what makes sports very special.
David Campbell (01:02:47.43)
Yeah, if you have any stories, listeners out there, if you want to send us some, you ran into somebody at an airport in an unusual place, another Cleveland sports fan, we would love to hear some of those. Just send those to sports at cleveland.com. all right, our final one here is from Terry Ramey. Terry lives in North Carolina and he has a Cavs question. says, yeah, no kidding. Burlington?
Terry (01:03:04.374)
boy, I hope he’s okay. No, say what town is he in? Okay, he’s probably okay. That’s over towards Greensboro. Because I worked in Greensboro, so I’m fairly familiar with that. Yeah, West is that. The Boone-Ashfall area is really bad. And those mountains are high. in fact, that’s not the…
David Campbell (01:03:15.802)
Yeah, but
Right. Man, the people in Asheville have just had a terrible down there. It’s awful.
Terry (01:03:31.85)
Anybody’s gonna go hike in this part there, but that’s when the roughest parts of the Appalachian Trail go through Western North Carolina and also then not more information, but he wants the Presidential Mountains in New Hampshire heading into Maine. So I would not suggest walking through any of those right now. Yeah.
David Campbell (01:03:47.622)
Wow.
David Campbell (01:03:50.93)
Yeah, well hopefully they’re getting a lot of help and a lot of resources. I hope it’s all headed down that way because those people can sure need it. So all right, well here’s Terry’s question. He says, hey, Dave and Terry, I’ve been reading about Jalen Tyson and I was intrigued. I’d read about him prior to the draft and remember his name and profile. It seems we’ve been on the lookout for a 6′6 win ever since Wayne Embry sold low on Ron Harper. So I’ve watched some highlights of Mr. Tyson. I’ve come away impressed.
Terry (01:04:03.128)
Mm-hmm.
Terry (01:04:11.021)
Mm-hmm.
David Campbell (01:04:17.212)
He might not be the explosive athlete like Ron Harper, but he looks very smooth and with a solid offensive game. If he can pick up his defense and continue to work hard, what do you think his ceiling would be, Terry? Thanks both you guys, I love the podcast. Thanks Terry. Terry Pluto, what do you think?
Terry (01:04:30.54)
I like him. I like them from the highlight tapes before the draft and I liked him in the summer league. I also like the fact he could rebound. He’s got good rebounding numbers and really comes across as a really good kid and you Terry is correct. They do need more wing help. I know they brought back Okoro, but this kid’s got a chance to be a
score. Now here’s the thing, he is a pretty good mid-range shooter and what analytics say about mid-range? No, don’t do it! We don’t want any of those stinking 10-foot two-point shots. Dunks and threes, yes. So I just think that they might have got something special with him. He dropped in the draft for one basic reason, which is that
David Campbell (01:05:08.082)
They don’t matter anymore.
David Campbell (01:05:15.634)
Dunks and threes, right?
Terry (01:05:29.752)
He was a little older, you know, they like them right out one year. I think I forgot where they went to. He ended up at Cal, but I can’t remember if we went to Texas tech or wherever he went. I think he was a Texas tech and then they had coaching changes and crazy stuff going on. so, and by the way, with him, they had one of their best years in the last several years at Cal, not that it was a great year, but Cal had been just a complete embarrassment in basketball. So.
David Campbell (01:05:41.146)
Yep, Texas Tech, yep.
Terry (01:05:59.36)
Yes, he’s right. It’s fun to talk about that. His name didn’t come up during media day, but I’m curious to see how he works. also, I want to see, uh-oh, here we go, new offense. already, there’s another team with a new offense. And so we’ll see what Kenny Atkinson does with these guys.
David Campbell (01:06:21.244)
Yeah, the other thing about Tyson, it’s a lot of times you see guys come into the league and like, I want to just contribute and find my place. He seems like he’s not flustered by any of this. And he’s like ready to just jump in with both feet and like, let’s go, you know, like he doesn’t have the rookie jitters or something. It seems like from you see him.
Terry (01:06:30.743)
Mm-mm.
Terry (01:06:36.686)
I thought Imani Bates regressed, at least with a couple of the summer league games I watched. And this kid clearly is a better all-around player than Imani Bates. So we’ll see now if Bates, again, we have a new coach and all that, but I really hope that he will. The Cavs also have Luke Travers. They have him. kind of liked him. I’m sort of a poor man’s Craig Elo. I’m curious to see what he does. 6667.
guard, really a guard and handles the ball well, she’s got to some shooting. But when, you know, when you really look at this team, I mean, they’re good. They’re good, David. They won 99 games the last two years. They beat Boston in a game and they just, I mean, I’m excited about it. And I do think Atkinson can maybe help them offensively, but he must make sure they don’t lose that defensive identity. That’s the key thing.
Because sometimes you get everybody’s going to be firing threes and nobody’s going to be guarding anybody. And I don’t want to see that happen. I don’t think Kenny’s going to let that happen. I talked to Mowgli for a while. And while the subject of threes came up with him and he mentioned about working on that, he was much more focused on improving his ball handling, being just stronger, going to the rim. I asked him if he learned anything about.
Kind of scoring from the middle. Remember he played center in the Boston series and he said he got got more comfortable as a one along. And I remember Boston didn’t have a lot of size, but that he couldn’t kind of, he didn’t say impose as well, but that’s what he saw. goes, I could find, I could really score in different ways against them. So that was good. mean, this kid, because of the defense and the rebounding, George Neang says something interesting. said, you know, he’s been averaging 16 and 10 and people act like it’s nothing.
I mean, he walks into the league and he’s one of the best defensive players and he’s totally unselfish. goes, how many guys do you say that about? And I think he just turned 22.
David Campbell (01:08:46.522)
And you know how it is, Terry, you can’t really explain to somebody what the NBA playoffs is like until they play in it. And I think last year’s run will set the foundation for what’s to come. So, all right, I think that’ll do it for us. Anything else you want to mention, Terry?
Terry (01:08:54.988)
Mm-hmm.
Terry (01:09:02.464)
Nope, I am done. I’ve run out of words. I’m on a word count. It’s over.
David Campbell (01:09:04.163)
All right. We’re on a word count, so we’re going to wrap it up. But don’t forget to check out Terry’s newsletter. Again, you can sign up at cleveland.com slash Pluto. Just go to the blue bar at the top and get your free trial. It’s a great time of year. Enjoy the sports week, and we’ll catch you next time on Terry’s Talkin.
